It's all about the feeling

[Benvolio]

Hey there crew,

daily lurker - infrequent poster.

I'm constantly baffled, frustrated and bemused by how many posts there are stirring the surfcraft debate. It tends to be bodyboarding vs stand up surfing - but it comes in many other forms.

It's really simple guys (and I know it's been said before) - but we're all on the same trip.

Surfing is about the feeling. A zen buddhist would call it satori, other religions might call it one-ness, a romantic poet would call it seeing into the life of things. It's about forgetting the world on the land... the bills, the phone, the job, the emails etc.

What surfcraft you ride to illicit this feeling doesn't matter one single itoa.

I personally have a diverse quiver:
- several kneeboards (my preferred craft when it's sucky and barreling)
- several longbaords (my preferred craft when it's fat or small)
- several shortboards (for some summer fun)
- a bodyboard (used to ride it when recovering from knee recontructions... it was fun!)
- a pod (these things are fantastic for bodysurfing - you can fully get in&out barrels)
- a paddleboard (when it's flat i can still get out there - it's also fun to ride on both small and large waves)
- lots of fins and snorkels etc
- a racing surf ski for fun and training
- i even have a lilo (inspired by george greenough)

The underlying theme is I just love being in the water regardless of the conditions in the surf. This means the car is choc-full of apparel and surfcraft which keeps my options open.

My simple point is - whatever gets you to that feeling of seeing into the life of things... that moment of one-ness when you're completely immersed in what you're doing at that moment, when nothing else matters. I don't care what gets you there - as long as you're there.

The secret is out... surfing (in all its forms) is good for general well being and the lineup at your local is only going to get more crowded. Deal with it.

Would love to know if anyone else has any strong arguments for or against (or even positing a new position altogether).

Keep surfing,
Benvolio

[Benvolio]

I work from home - so I manage to squeeze things in. Never enough time in my life tho - that's why I go surfing.

As for standing on a kneedboard... can definitely be done. Feels a little like a very short - very fat fish with not as much drive. If you've ever seen Simon Farrer out and about, he often does and will rip a roundhouse that would make most standup surfers jealous.

[harveybirdman]

Eh, every single forum on the internet has trolls and the tools who feed them. If it isn't surfing vs. bodyboarding, it's something else. Trolls can be pretty funny sometimes, although the surfer/booger stuff here has gotten pretty stale, no new material and has just becoming borrrrring.

[Larry]

Some time ago I was sitting at S'av watching a bunch of kids surfing the reforms and there was this one youngster on a broken piece of foam .. the thing wasn't even glassed, just some cut-off from somewhere .. about 4' in length and kind of rectangular.

The kid was standing up every wave, turning, doing 360's (no fins) and skating into flat cutbacks.

Some of his mates were on boards, others on boogers, and a couple just bodysurfing.

All of them were having a lot of fun ..

[Grooter]

I like to sit and watching people after a session use those skim board things running into the wave washing back from the beach before heading home.

Some of them get great height if they hit an incoming wave at the right moment. Never tried it myself but looks like a lot of fun.

[savesealrocks]

Some time ago I was sitting at S'av watching a bunch of kids surfing the reforms and there was this one youngster on a broken piece of foam .. the thing wasn't even glassed, just some cut-off from somewhere .. about 4' in length and kind of rectangular.

The kid was standing up every wave, turning, doing 360's (no fins) and skating into flat cutbacks.

Some of his mates were on boards, others on boogers, and a couple just bodysurfing.

All of them were having a lot of fun ..

are you fond of watching minors playing at the beach aswell larry. maybe we should trade photo's.

[Larry]

Keep that sort of sleazy innuendo for your own mates sealrocks - When you've got a couple of grandkids out surfing , like I do, I'm more than likely to watch out for blokes like yourself .. you sound like a rockspider mate

larry

[wavemagnet]

Can you be Zen and a bigot at the same time too?


Nice post Benvo.
Agree with your sentiments and am kinda jealous of your versatile quiver and skills.
Cheers

[Nick Carroll]

What surfcraft you ride to illicit this feeling doesn't matter one single itoa.

Well Benny, since everyone is being so nice about this, I will challenge you for real.

A very smart man (well, Canadian) called Marshall McLuhan once theorised about media in a new and revolutionary (for the time) manner. He coined the term "the medium is the message" -- by which he meant that the distinct properties of a particular media form (say, TV) would end up modifying whatever content it carried to the point that the content would become steadily unrecognizable through any other media form.

All you gotta do to understand this is watch 10 minutes of Big Brother. Or indeed spend 10 minutes reading posts to this forum and posting a couple yaself.

I have long wondered if the same can be said of the surfing experience on different craft. Is the Surfcraft the Experience? In other words, is the regular booger's surfing experience steadily modified by the craft he/she rides, to the point where it's more or less unrecognizable to the regular longboarder's?

I think it is. Quite bloody clearly actually. Boogers hunt out and ride waves no longboarder would look at even once; they see and feel the waves from an entirely different angle, and try to do things on waves that a longboarder wouldn't even dream of. And vice versa for that matter. Undoubtedly, the craft is what is causing this separation of experience to happen.

Indeed: does the quite obvious difference in the experience transfer itself over time to a deeper individual difference between "booger" and "longboarder"?

Is this why so many bodyboarders seem to post here in txt gbbrshh and so many longboarders seem to battle with the idea that they might be wave hogs?

Ok, I am taking the piss, but it seems to me that going all "satori" is just soft thinking, and surprisingly unobservant from a person who's got way more surfing equipment than most (and boy! weren't you KEEN to share that with us all, uninvited!). Forget the "shouldn't": WHY do ya reckon there's so many booger-vs-the-world threads, despite the fact that on the surface it's the most boring subject in the Universe?

[Beanpole]

Good to see Marshall McLuhan get a mention there, Nick. Now theres a blast from the past and probably more relevant today than 40 years ago

I really agree with what you say about boards and I think thats why people are looking for alternate surf craft to the overspecialised thruster.
The hunt for high performance waves is an obsession that can lead to frustration when the means are not readily available. People look at whats available and think, Hey, I could do something with that wave if I had x,y or z style of board. Now they can and do make the most of whats available at the local

[Benvolio]

well i'm glad to see someone who disagrees with me! or at least challenges some assumptions.

to answer a few things...

kinda jealous of your versatile quiver and skills

i do have a bunch of equipment - but don't get the wrong idea. i'm anything but good on any of these craft. most of the time i just go unnoticed in the lineup... which is just the way i like it.

who's got way more surfing equipment than most (and boy! weren't you KEEN to share that with us all, uninvited!)

it is possible i'm over compensating for a lack in other areas... all those phallic bits of fiberglass. could be the latent (or not so latent) consumer // collector in me.


as to the question about medium - i.e. the television analogy. that's a big question. is our perception of the world determined by the parameters and limitations of our sensory organs... that's a mother of a question.

does a lemon taste sour because of the acid or because our taset-buds experience acid to be sour? there are some flowers that emit ultra-violet light which is beyond our visual perception. but some birds can see this range in the spectrum and have developed this over the years so they can pick these flowers out a whole lot easier and so the flower appears completely different to them. but i think that's a bit of a straw man argument and getting a bit sidetracked.

i think what you were really asking is two things:
1. do you "feel" a different kind of stoke or experience when riding different surfcraft
2. are there commonalities in peoples personalities that draw them to ride particular surf craft.


to answer the first one - definitely. the experience of getting barrelled while bodysurfing is great - but nowhere near as good as when i'm kneeboarding. my point about the variety of surfcraft i use is that i choose the right tool for the right job. you wouldn't use a plastic spoon to drill a hole in a wall... and i wouldn't use a longboard to surf a place like "ours" with the bra boys. i know i'm not going to get anywhere near the "feeling" surfing a kneeboard in fat crumbling waves... but on a mal it could be fun. the point is - with the right tool i increase the probability of getting to that stoke.

as to the second bit about commonalities... that's a really grey area. one analogy i can think of is - are there commonalities about people who choose to live in paris as opposed to sydney or london? probably. parisians have a name for being rude and arrogant... but surely not all of them are like that. in know some who aren't. internationally, sydneysiders have a reputation for being both laid back and hard working... but i'm sure we all know an uptight lazy git or two. the londoners... well they just think they're the centre of the universe.

not wanting to get all soft with my "satori" thinking - but they're all still people right? people in paris might speak french and we speak english - but they still eat, sleep sh*t and f*k.

i think the fact that "boogers" tend to be younger and "longboarders" tend to be older might be getting closer to the mark. maybe the craft you ride is an expression of the limitations of what your body will allow. that seems kinda week to me too though.

i may sound a little desmund tutu - but surely there are more commonalities about between a booger and a longboarder than an inlander. that's my real point.

would love to hear what you think.

[Johnno]

you wouldn't use a plastic spoon to drill a hole in a wall... .

Why not, I like a challenge .....................

[Grooter]

Without wanting to start a philosophical debate my take on boogers and long boarders is this.

Both forms of surfcraft are very easy to get the feeling quickly. By that I mean they are easy to learn because it's easy to catch waves. Note that I do not think they are easy to master. It's like playing the guitar, anyone with 2 hands can play some 12 bar blues but not many on the planet can play it like B.B. King either.

Also I think that once feeling has been obtained, a lot of people prefer to stick with what they know anyway.

For myself I find that I get the most out of surfing on a mini-mal, for that reason and that reason alone, is why I stick with it. I don't need to hunt around for a decent break with a shortboard because, for one it doesn't interest me and two, most will do with the board I use anyway. I freely admit that I prefer to stick with what I know. That probably says a bit about my personality and if it makes me happy, it can't be a bad thing.

But I also respect those people who have a lot of different surf craft too. There is nothing wrong with having a lot of things at your disposal to maximise your enjoyment out of something. It's all about what you like and what you prefer. It says a lot about you both as a surfer and as a person. Neither bad.

[Nick Carroll]

my point about the variety of surfcraft i use is that i choose the right tool for the right job. you wouldn't use a plastic spoon to drill a hole in a wall... and i wouldn't use a longboard to surf a place like "ours" with the bra boys.

yeah but that's YOU. That is not reflective of the approach of almost everyone else in the water. The vast majority of people pick a craft and stick to it come hell or high water, literally. This leads 'em to ride different kinds of waves in very different styles, and as a result, they develop different cultures. To pick a sort of facile example, look at the difference between Riptide magazine and Australian Longboarding.

as to the second bit about commonalities... that's a really grey area. one analogy i can think of is - are there commonalities about people who choose to live in paris as opposed to sydney or london? probably. parisians have a name for being rude and arrogant... but surely not all of them are like that. in know some who aren't. internationally, sydneysiders have a reputation for being both laid back and hard working... but i'm sure we all know an uptight lazy git or two. the londoners... well they just think they're the centre of the universe.
not wanting to get all soft with my "satori" thinking - but they're all still people right? people in paris might speak french and we speak english - but they still eat, sleep sh*t and f*k.

i think the fact that "boogers" tend to be younger and "longboarders" tend to be older might be getting closer to the mark. maybe the craft you ride is an expression of the limitations of what your body will allow. that seems kinda week to me too though.

i may sound a little desmund tutu - but surely there are more commonalities about between a booger and a longboarder than an inlander. that's my real point.

No matey, your real point, made in your original post, was that there's not "a single iota of difference" between the experience of riding any kind of surf craft. I don't for one moment believe this to be the case, I think the differences between the experiences are highly significant and have a strong effect on our surfing natures, and while I can clearly see that we all eat, sleep, s**t, f**k etc and thus a common vein of humanity links us all, that's not up for discussion here.

[wavemagnet]

What surfcraft you ride to illicit this feeling doesn't matter one single itoa.
...

My simple point is - whatever gets you to that feeling of seeing into the life of things... that moment of one-ness when you're completely immersed in what you're doing at that moment, when nothing else matters. I don't care what gets you there - as long as you're there.

Don't know if you're being objectionable just for the sake of it NC (?), but I believe Benvo's point was (and still is) it shouldn't matter what gets you stoked in/on/under the ocean. Not that there was no difference in the experience of riding waves on different surfcraft. Not that different surfcraft don't have their own advantages and disadvantages and even 'cultures' surrounding their usage. Not that the majority of boogers and longboarders aren't young punks and old farts respectively. Not that he believes everyone on earth or even in the 'wider surfing community' (the one you don't seem to believe exists?) agrees with him.

He just thinks they should. It's his opinion that just maybe people who are hung up on riding a particular surfcraft 'come hell or high water' are doing themselves, and possibly the wider surfing community, a disservice.

You may say he's a dreamer.... but he's not the only one

[oldman]

It's really simple guys (and I know it's been said before) - but we're all on the same trip.

Not sure about your starting position. Philosophically it is easy to believe that no-one is on the same trip as me, regardless of what board they ride. It is possible the seeming connections between us are completely illusory. We assume common ideas, experiences etc, and they probably are, but perhaps they aren't.

Also, it is easier to suggest that the craft you choose to ride is in fact the symptom or expression of your difference before you hit the water. Perhaps our lives have nothing in common except for the enjoyment of getting wet, which may be a completely different subjective experience anyway, so maybe there is no connection/intersection, and the water just gives us an apparent link.

The intriguing thing about comparing sameness and difference is that sometimes things that seem the same on the surface are the most radically different in totality. A booger might have more in common with a den of thieves than with a longboarder, or perhaps they both have a tremendous amount in common with the alleged den of thieves, while not intersecting at all with the sweet and lovable short board community.

Or maybe the only thing we have in common is that we are all completely alone, with only some rudimentary mental tricks that allow us to fool ourselves otherwise. Perhaps we are not connected, at all, even slightly!

And no-one can hear you scream!

(P.S. not sure where I was going with this, or where it ended up, and I don't care. It's Friday and nobody was going to stop me putting some rubbish up here)

[Nick Carroll]

Don't know if you're being objectionable just for the sake of it NC (?), but I believe Benvo's point was (and still is) it shouldn't matter what gets you stoked in/on/under the ocean.

I am challenging his point of view, magnet, not being objectionable.

And I say not that it "should" or "shouldn't" matter -- I think it absolutely, clearly, provably DOES.

To say it "shouldn't", sorry! Not thinking! Not observing! Avoiding issue with platitude!

[grazza]

Agreed, NC - different craft demand different ways of seeing - to take the most extreme angle I can think, does the sweep on the clubbie boat experience the surf in the same way as your soulful mat rider? Whether your surfing life is richer with diverse range of craft that keep you in that beginner's mind space, or with a narrow band of craft that you lets you build a deep mastery is debatable, but they are different. Benvolio, if they weren't different you wouldn't have the quiver that you do.

Like it or not, we don't exist in a vacuum and if you're surfing with other people (or like me, thousands of other people) choice of craft is a political act. It's a statement about power and possession, and it has implications for the way the line up works and every person's surfing experience, not just yours. I'd quite like to have a mal to ride in certain conditions, and did for a while, but I gave it up because, well, it changes you and pisses off everyone around you. That's why this topic, boring as it is, has legs.