Clark Foam shuts down

[ric_vidal]

After that, it wouldn't surprise me to see a drastic DROP in board prices.

What makes you think that offshore1?

Are you talking finished boards, or about blank production? If it's finished boards then yes there may be some cheaper ones available, but this is already happening. Even Speeedfins are now having boards made in China, but they aren't overly cheap.

I read one of the links posted here to a US site which was a fax from Grubby Clark and my take on his reason for closing wasn't so much about employee litigation, but was regarding compliance to Orange County Fire Authority and the EPA and the overwhelming feeling that California State no longer want that type of manufacturing in their area and were just making it impossible to comply with regulations.

He (Clark) even detailed litigation of one employee where it had cost US$100,000s in legal fees, yet the employee only received something under $20K. This, compared to the usage and risk of TDI compliance was a veritable drop in the ocean where a friend of his was hit with a $4,000,000 fine.

Despite the known risks of TDI, Clark was unable to even contemplate an alternative foam as they would have been braking the laws of California - Catch22.

I am aware of his reputation like most, but am led to believe the Clark operation was pretty well regimented and a safe working environment.

All I can say is, if you haven't already, read the article.

[bc]

I recon what Offshore is saying, is that in the short term prices will increase,
but the epoxy market will ramp up production dramatically to fill this demand,
meaning they will have lower production costs due to bigger factories etc, resulting in a lower cost per board in the end.

Assuming French can do this with no dramas, it shouldnt take more than a year or so to change the industry, given he has a solid base to build on, including legally, financially, distribution and sales.

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/smallbus ... 82,00.html

[offshore1]

Hi Ric,
I've not been online the past few days, been busy with work, my upcoming family trip down under (where does one find suitable, lightweight, summer riot gear?) , and there's been some fun surf here, too. Cold, but noice

bc has my point perfectly, and I was referring to finished product:

I recon what Offshore is saying, is that in the short term prices will increase,
but the epoxy market will ramp up production dramatically to fill this demand,
meaning they will have lower production costs due to bigger factories etc, resulting in a lower cost per board in the end.

Assuming French can do this with no dramas, it shouldnt take more than a year or so to change the industry, given he has a solid base to build on, including legally, financially, distribution and sales.

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/smallbus ... 82,00.html

Grubby Clark has a reputation for being callous, but not stupid.

Imho, he has seen " the handwriting on the wall," namely epoxy/China, and has decided to take his winnings off the table. I've heard, through the grapevine, that he's destroying all his equipment.

If it was solely an environmental issue, he could easily do what hundreds of other American businesses have done and move operations across the border, to Mexico. Time will tell.

Now, as I said in a previous post above, the changes coming about from Clark's actions will be disturbing: almost immediately, board prices spiked here at my local.

But the longest-lasting trauma will likely be felt, unfortunately, by individual shapers like yourself, Ric.

I've got some friends who work with the biggest shaper/glasser in this area; he told them, in a moment of sad reflection a year or more ago, that what they're doing (semi large-scale local board production) is a dying industry, and he said this even before Merrick and Rusty et al climbed on board the epoxy bandwagon.

Again, it's just my opinion, but my gut feeling is that in five or ten years, local shapers are going to be pinched so hard by the 'commoditisation'(sp) of of the product, ie. mass production and all that that entails(not the least of which is rock bottom labour costs), that the local shapers' services will be akin to those of a fine tailor, appealing only to those urbane, discriminating individuals

(Merkin comes to mind, the 'Oscar Wilde' of surfing )

who can appreciate the subtle nuances of board design: an eighth of an inch here, a different layup schedule there, and has the wherewithall to indulge his passion.

Gosh, I hope I'm wrong,

[bc]

other blank manufacturers increasing production
http://www.globalsurfnews.com/news.asp?Id_news=19624

increases in surfboards being stolen in the states
http://www.theksbwchannel.com/news/5557492/detail.html

I still cant find any answers to why Clark shut down the factory.
-His statement is at odds with the EPA and other regualtory bodies who say they did not force him to shut down
http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/5-12-10/35563.html

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-s ... &cset=true

So either Clark has taken an almost unprecedented high ground in shutting his business for the greater environmental good, or he has another plan up his sleeve.

[offshore1]

He didn't acquire the nickname, "Grubby," by being a bleeding heart environmentalist
Nah, he's old, and rich, and ready to call it quits, I say.
He's only using the EPA as an excuse.

[ric_vidal]

Imho, he has seen " the handwriting on the wall," namely epoxy/China, and has decided to take his winnings off the table. I've heard, through the grapevine, that he's destroying all his equipment...

But the longest-lasting trauma will likely be felt, unfortunately, by individual shapers like yourself, Ric.

That's right offshore1, forgot you're coming down here to have a surf at NN. Have fun and don't drop in on anyone going left on the Nothern Beaches, it might be me!

The destroying of the equipment was covered in Grubby's 'fax', and it all relates to him being described as the 'standard' and therefore legally responsible if the equipment was on-sold. Another one of those wierd litigation threats that seemingly could only happen in America.

I think you're right, he's had enough, got enough, and they seriously don't want production in California, but it doesn't sound like he has a wonderful few years ahead of him.

It's not going to effect me as a shaper as I do far too few and left-field designs to be amongst the mainstream.

I know epoxy is more expensive and I was also of the understanding it emits a lot more toxic fumes - not what you'd call an environmentally friendly alternative.

Also heard yesterday of someone else bringing in boards from China, $240 for a gloss polished fish with FCS, but that's to an individual close to the importer so probably close to cost! :?

Glad I don't do it for a real job!

[offshore1]

I know epoxy is more expensive and I was also of the understanding it emits a lot more toxic fumes - not what you'd call an environmentally friendly alternative.

I've been around alot of boatbuilding technology over the years and, yeah, the word in that industry is that working w/ epoxy is far more deadly than polyester. It's also 10x more expensive over here but, man, is it a superior product for boat construction: heaps stronger, far better adhesion, far better flexibility, but poor uv resistance. Those qualities, when coupled with a uv-proof coating like linear polyurethane, make for one tough marine product.

I won't be dropping in on ya, Ric , just JD; he's, by all accounts, a wuss .

[ric_vidal]

It's also 10x more expensive over here but, man, is it a superior product for boat construction: heaps stronger, far better adhesion, far better flexibility, but poor uv resistance. Those qualities, when coupled with a uv-proof coating like linear polyurethane, make for one tough marine product...

Mate, the guys in the industry here start sweating when you talk about a $10 increase, let alone 10x the price! I've been meaning to give it a go some time for one of my own so maybe I'll bring that forward.

Love the whole idea of vacuum bagging etc, but it is hard to acquire the knowledge and/or get organised.

All-in-all there could be some interesting times ahead.

[Meataxe]

I picked up a spanking Al Merrick retro twin fin fish yesterday (So damn sweet! sweet as she wanna be) which was originally $950 but had supposedly dropped to $880 since the close of clarck foam. Using diagrams if appropriate, can someone please outline the economics of this to me.

[ric_vidal]

can't do diagrams without a little effort so here goes:

salesman tells hesitant customer semi-credible sounding story to convince customer to buy product at huge markup but slightly less markup than marked price

bingo

[Meataxe]

ah, so cynical wanto. It's sad really. No, jealousy doesn't become you at all. It's an absolute pimp of a board. I have to say though my spider senses were tingling when he started spinning that stuff. I was under the impression that scarcity increased the price, but not according to my salesman friend. He only brought it up when I asked if he wanted to talk turkey.

[munch]

I've been around alot of boatbuilding technology over the years and, yeah, the word in that industry is that working w/ epoxy is far more deadly than polyester.

Any ideas why?
I'd heard thru the grape vine that some people develop allergies but thats all

It's also 10x more expensive over here

no where near that difference here

Love the whole idea of vacuum bagging etc, but it is hard to acquire the knowledge and/or get organised.

ya don't need to bag em, ya can just wet em out like you'd normally do with polyester well thats how the salomans are made anyway

[ric_vidal]

ya don't need to bag em, ya can just wet em out like you'd normally do with polyester well thats how the salomans are made anyway

yer but na but yer but it is better if you can bag to get precisely the right resin to glass combo and better bond - james bond. So I've read - formula 1 surfboards - yes!

Yous use epoxy, lambchops? Have to get fingfong back to enter this debate, he likes getting sticky.

[munch]

yer but na but yer but it is better if you can bag to get precisely the right resin to glass combo and better bond - james bond. So I've read - formula 1 surfboards - yes!

I know they bag the sailboards and the like, but I'm not sure whether you'd need to on a board, I'm kind off thinking that bagging em would make em stiffer which may or may not be what ya want like small waves no and big waves yes :? :? :?

Yous use epoxy, lambchops? Have to get fingfong back to enter this debate, he likes getting sticky.

Yeah pm'ed some other details incase someone hasn't worked out who I am yet

[bro]

I agree Meataxe I think you got ahem ripped cough

[Meataxe]

yeah I reckon that clark foam price drop is a crock. But I also reckon $880 for the kind of board it is is a fair price. I'll put a pic of it up tonight.