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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:10 am
by Cranked
crabmeat thompson wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:23 pm
in all the attacks, by memory everything i've ever read is it was one bite attacks? just much bigger sharks doing it in the west? maybe that swimmer at cottesloe was bitten again and again. fuschia, i can't really remember that far. but these east coast attacks have all been subs and juvies, exploratory bite and release, yeah?
From what I've read white shark "attacks" are of two types. One just checking a potential food source by cruising on over and taking an investigative bite. The other mode is when they are more confident it's a good food source. This mode is more like a lion: hiding a hundred metres away, explosive acceleration to top speed, then hitting hard to stun the victim and biting to ensure its death; then getting out of the way and waiting while it dies to ensure they risk as little damage to themselves as possible.
The attack at Left Handers was a classic full on attack, and most probably, as Steve said, so was the recent one.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:21 am
by tootr
A mouthful of surfboard might be the difference between a and b.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:27 am
by BA
I’ve often wondered if that’s the case. Do they bite, get a hard chunk of board instead of the expected mammal flesh feel, let go, and move on.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:32 am
by Trev
There was a case where the guy's legrope went into the sharks mouth first and apparently it took a moment to spit it out, giving him time to move.
I don't remember whether he suffered any injuries.
But he lived to tell the tale.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:29 am
by steve shearer
crabmeat thompson wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:21 am
steve shearer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:15 pm
yeah, can't see QLD pulling those nets, or at least not without replacing them with drums.
I just find it ironic that people say there will never be a cull because of popular opinion when there has been a culling program in place for 60 years.
humans rarely like to face the extent of their actions. it sounds much better to say, 'we're installing shark protective nets'; than 'we're indiscriminately culling sharks, dolphins, rays and turtles out the back'.
It do.
It was interesting to see what happened around here.
they put nets in, but because community opinion turned against the by catch they pulled them out.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:10 pm
by crabmeat thompson
back at the turn of the century when i was with surfrider ... the pressure we applied to have them taken down was immense. it made council where they voted on it. from memory it wasn't even close the count, to keep them up. but gold coast will always make $$ orientated decisions, and there's no higher $$ than the tourist dollar.
we used to paddle out there on clubbie boards, and turtles, dolphins were all in them, dead. one day i saw a big hammerhead take it's last few struggles and thrashes as she drowned. it's so eerie and bleak out there, all that black water lit up by bright white, bloated bodies stuck in the net.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:04 pm
by Kunji
steve shearer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:05 pm
This is not a timid, shy animal.
If you have done any research on shark behaviour, you'll find that they have been observed displaying those characteristics. Especially when approaching floating carrion like dead whales. It seems that sharks aren't 1 dimensional killing machines like the Entitled Anti-shark Elite would have you believe.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:41 pm
by foamy
With eating dead whales, that shark timidity would seem to be mostly timidity towards other sharks. Sharks generally appear careful to defer to bigger sharks. Even relatively small differences in size seem to be acknowledged in setting up the pecking order.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:09 pm
by Nick Carroll
Trev wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:22 pm
Steve, how do the "smart" drum lines work?
You asked shearer but I guess he missed it.
Smart drumlines have 4g responders attached to the drum. There's a hook drifting a couple of metres under, baited with fish, usually a whole mullet. The whole thing is placed around 500m offshore. When a shark hits the bait and stays on the hook, the responder alerts a contractor who comes out, takes the shark off the hook, tags it, and releases it well offshore, usually between 6 and 10ks out. Most of the sharks who hit the smart drumlines survive this treatment pretty easily. The tag isn't a GPS, instead it's a location trigger for the smart buoy arrays here and there up and down the coast, the things that set off SharkSmart and the other apps.
Quite a bit of info has been gathered off the back of this system, they've probably. tagged about 10% of the east coast white shark population in the process. One interesting thing they've noticed is that white sharks are very cautious about returning to the coastal waters following a tagging, tigers and bulls usually come right back in but whites stay offshore for an average of 90 days.
I'm a bit blown away you didn't know this already trev.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:11 pm
by Thud
Timidity. Not a word I’d associate with high apex predators. “Oh such a timid grizzly bear” or “that great white is adorable, look how timid it is around those seals”.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:16 pm
by Nick Carroll
kunji different shark species behave differently. Tigers can be quite shy and v cautious around people, it can be hard to get them in close on shark dives - they'll stay about 250m out and circle, checking everything out, but never coming within sight range.
White sharks don't seem very timid at all, they'll seemingly swim whatever line they want. At JBay they just swim down the point, seemingly not giving a shit whether humans are there or not.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:37 pm
by Thud
Big female Tiger hanging around Copa a few months back very close to shore and surfers. Just cruised on by multiple times.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:38 pm
by Trev
Nick Carroll wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:09 pm
Trev wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:22 pm
Steve, how do the "smart" drum lines work?
You asked shearer but I guess he missed it.
Smart drumlines have 4g responders attached to the drum. There's a hook drifting a couple of metres under, baited with fish, usually a whole mullet. The whole thing is placed around 500m offshore. When a shark hits the bait and stays on the hook, the responder alerts a contractor who comes out, takes the shark off the hook, tags it, and releases it well offshore, usually between 6 and 10ks out. Most of the sharks who hit the smart drumlines survive this treatment pretty easily. The tag isn't a GPS, instead it's a location trigger for the smart buoy arrays here and there up and down the coast, the things that set off SharkSmart and the other apps.
Quite a bit of info has been gathered off the back of this system, they've probably. tagged about 10% of the east coast white shark population in the process. One interesting thing they've noticed is that white sharks are very cautious about returning to the coastal waters following a tagging, tigers and bulls usually come right back in but whites stay offshore for an average of 90 days.
I'm a bit blown away you didn't know this already trev.
Thanks Nick.
I knew there were drum lines out there, just hadn't followed it all closely enough on the tagging program.
I was starting to surf in the 60s when the nets first went up on the Goldie.
In fact, my Dad's Quickcat was an early casualty of them. In a race off Kirra he capsized and before he could right it, the northerly blew him over the nets which wrapped around his mast. When the Club's assistance boat came along and towed him free, the mast snapped also tearing his sail to shreds.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:42 pm
by Kunji
Nick Carroll wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:16 pm
kunji different shark species behave differently. Tigers can be quite shy and v cautious around people, it can be hard to get them in close on shark dives - they'll stay about 250m out and circle, checking everything out, but never coming within sight range.
White sharks don't seem very timid at all, they'll seemingly swim whatever line they want. At JBay they just swim down the point, seemingly not giving a shit whether humans are there or not.
White shark populations have been noted to behave differently in different locations eg South Oz, South Africa and East coast of NZ around the same prey.
All im saying is White shark behaviour is more complicated than being just one note as observed. They can be cautious and exercise self preservation.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:21 pm
by crabmeat thompson
the theory is, like most creatures in this world... is that sharks each have their very own unique personality.
so yes, some will be grumpy, others angry, others chill like bob marley. some will even have a sense of humour.
like this chap off costa rica back in the 80's. when obviously the weed was really good.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:46 pm
by steve shearer
saying they are curious and bold, occasionally aggressive is not the same as calling them "one dimensional killing machines"
I think Braithy might call that over-dramatic.
Lets have an adult, nuanced conversation Coops.
whites in the surf zone, esp the juvey/sub-adults we see up here seem to exhibit mostly v. curious behaviour to complete indifference towards humans.
there's now a ton of data from encounters, attacks and aerial surveillance footage to have a high degree of confidence in that statement.
they are not shy and timid.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:07 pm
by Cranked
Over the decades I have read numerous times about the natural curiosity of great whites and their lack of fear - usually attributed to having very few natural predators - anything unusual, they just cruise on over and have a look, and maybe, a little taste.
Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:02 pm
by Kunji
steve shearer wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:46 pm
saying they are curious and bold, occasionally aggressive is not the same as calling them "one dimensional killing machines"
I think Braithy might call that over-dramatic.
Lets have an adult, nuanced conversation Coops.
whites in the surf zone, esp the juvey/sub-adults we see up here seem to exhibit mostly v. curious behaviour to complete indifference towards humans.
there's now a ton of data from encounters, attacks and aerial surveillance footage to have a high degree of confidence in that statement.
they are not shy and timid.
Steve, my man, im advocating for nuance.
You're also using the Trump logic for climate change denial. "Nah it was cold in my town, therefore its a hoax".
Your only proof for argument comes from attacks alone. Not the possible 100s of sharks that aren't pinged and don't attack and are essentially invisible to tracking methods. Is it not possible then that those sharks act in the way described above? And that confirmed observations from several locations across the globe.