Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

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Nick Carroll
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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by Nick Carroll » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:58 pm

steve shearer wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:34 pm
Nick Carroll wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:30 pm


Maybe some of it is people changing their behaviour. It's not really being examined or observed which I think is a shame, there's as much to be learned through that as there is through counting sharks etc.

For eg?
Well it's the other side of the interaction isn't it. I don't have any example, but who is actually studying the human behaviour? If people haven't changed their behaviour as a result of 2015/16 it would defy all belief, we all know it's had a wide range of effects, but what exactly are those effects? Like you will be watching your own and gaining anecdotal evidence from your surfing etc, but that's kind of limited to what you're doing. Are people surfing more? Less? Do they watch what they are doing more closely and how? Are they riding different boards? Do their partners etc have fears and do those transmitted fears affect how they behave around the water? What are regular beachgoers doing?

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steve shearer
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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by steve shearer » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:32 am

I'm sure, well I know, there's been a whole host of subjective changes in peoples behaviour: including stopping their kids surfing, not surfing certain spots, clustering in crowds, reducing the time they surf etc etc but my point is I'm not sure any of that reduces the macro chances of a shark interaction/encounter/attack.

What was so interesting about that J-Bay shark was seeing just how comfortable they are cruising in clear, shallow water along and in the surf line. And that shark- sub-adult in the 10 ft range- is very similar to the ones we are seeing so abundantly around here.

I've told this story many times but winter 2014 I watched a similar sized white cruise the lineup at Lennox Point on a beautiful winters afternoon. That shark cruised within 6 ft of about 25-30 surfers and not one of them saw it due to the angle of the sun. It was the perfect line for an ambush predator.

But maybe that crowd was protective, the shark didn't feel confident enough in picking off a single target. And maybe just 2 guys in the water, as there was at J-Bay was less protective and a white shark might have been more emboldened to circle and attack a surfer.
This is classic predator/prey behaviour. The predator has to pick out an individual to attack, the prey animals cluster together in herds/schools etc etc. The predator wants to get the slower/weaker individual to reduce energy expenditure, reduce chances of injury to itself.

So I guess a major behaviour change is now a reversion to classic biological prey behaviour en masse.


Do you get the drift of what I'm saying?

I'm very wary/attentive in the water now, but I know that sometimes, paddling back along the surf line with the winter sun behind me, a white could be a foot away and I would never see it.
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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by godsavethequeen » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:49 am

I was chatting to my mate today about this, various shark encounters he's had spearing or freediving and each one where he was bumped he never saw it coming despite 40+m viz. Literally, not a sniff

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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by Cranked » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:18 am

Ground rules for surfing in Australias new "time of sharks":

1. Surf as little as possible
2. Surf with as many other surfers as possible

You would have to be stupid though if you did not recognise that there will be a huge increase in attacks as the effects of protection of our major predator, and its prey species, result in a geometric progression of the great white numbers in coastal waters.

Best strategy though is to move to our virtually shark-attack-free neighbour Indonesia.
“I don’t necessarily agree with everything I say ”— Marshall McLuhan

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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by Cranked » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:33 am

I did have visions of, in my retirement, surfing the NW and southern coastlines of WA, the two most under populated and undersurfed coastlines in the world.

Although I knew there were sharks, in the past I always took comfort from the fact that no surfer had ever been killed by a shark in WA. In fact the first death was only about 13 years ago, up until that time I surfed the freakiest of places by myself, scared at times, but relying on that one beautiful fact.

Now its been 16 deaths in 13 years and my, and most other surfers, behaviour has changed.
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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by Beanpole » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:41 am

I've wondered if surfers behaviour in the water confuses sharks as well. Since we often don't see them we may very often just paddle straight towards them or ignore their advance. Equally you might just be trying to catch a wave and the shark reacts to this as trying to get away and attacks.

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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by tootr » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:16 am

Tagged fish from 8 Dec 16 to 7 Jun 17

GWS 31
Tiger 3
Grey Nurse 2
Bull 3




http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fishing/shark ... 0-may-2017
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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by Nick Carroll » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:58 pm

steve shearer wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:32 am
I'm sure, well I know, there's been a whole host of subjective changes in peoples behaviour: including stopping their kids surfing, not surfing certain spots, clustering in crowds, reducing the time they surf etc etc but my point is I'm not sure any of that reduces the macro chances of a shark interaction/encounter/attack.

What was so interesting about that J-Bay shark was seeing just how comfortable they are cruising in clear, shallow water along and in the surf line. And that shark- sub-adult in the 10 ft range- is very similar to the ones we are seeing so abundantly around here.

I've told this story many times but winter 2014 I watched a similar sized white cruise the lineup at Lennox Point on a beautiful winters afternoon. That shark cruised within 6 ft of about 25-30 surfers and not one of them saw it due to the angle of the sun. It was the perfect line for an ambush predator.

But maybe that crowd was protective, the shark didn't feel confident enough in picking off a single target. And maybe just 2 guys in the water, as there was at J-Bay was less protective and a white shark might have been more emboldened to circle and attack a surfer.
This is classic predator/prey behaviour. The predator has to pick out an individual to attack, the prey animals cluster together in herds/schools etc etc. The predator wants to get the slower/weaker individual to reduce energy expenditure, reduce chances of injury to itself.

So I guess a major behaviour change is now a reversion to classic biological prey behaviour en masse.


Do you get the drift of what I'm saying?

I'm very wary/attentive in the water now, but I know that sometimes, paddling back along the surf line with the winter sun behind me, a white could be a foot away and I would never see it.
Oh I get that.

I would reckon sharks like that one move through the Bay lineup almost every day. Everyone saw this one because there was a massive circus going on, skis, drones etc etc. But in a normal surf you would only see that thing if it swam directly underneath you -- and you were paying attention at the time. I only saw that one the other day because it surfaced for a while. I dunno if they are always in hunting mode or not.

But you know, there's "not sure" and then there's taking a close look over time. There hasn't been an attack for a while along your bit of coast. Maybe it's just my curiosity about it. I totally don't reckon this is all over that's for sure.

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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by crabmeat thompson » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:08 pm

A cruising shark is no threat. Like godsave said. The ones you dont see are the ones that want you.
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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by Hollowed out » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:17 pm

Hey Nick,
I know it was on the JBay thread but did you find out if those Jet Skis had a Shark Shield Fitted?

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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by Beanpole » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:11 pm

Of course Great Whites can easily swim from WA to the east coast of South Africa.

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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by Nick Carroll » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:32 am

Hollowed out wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:17 pm
Hey Nick,
I know it was on the JBay thread but did you find out if those Jet Skis had a Shark Shield Fitted?
I haven't yet. Will though.

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steve shearer
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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by steve shearer » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:34 am

This one makes 5 for Evans in a 48hr period. Pretty good going for an endangered species.

SharkSmart‏ @NSWSharkSmart 2d2 days ago
More
NSWDPI report a 2.45m Female White Shark caught off SMART drumlines at Main Beach, Evans Head. Shark tagged and released offshore.



Looks like we've got close to a royal flush this morning.

DPI Fisheries advise: tagged bull shark detected by Sharpes Beach, Ballina receiver at 06:30:00 PM (AEST) on 22-Jul-2017

DPI Fisheries advise: tagged white shark detected by Lennox Point, Lennox Head receiver at 04:51:00 AM (AEST) on 22-Jul-2017

DPI Fisheries advise: tagged bull shark detected by Lighthouse Beach, Ballina receiver at 11:13:00 PM (AEST) on 21-Jul-2017

sorry, yesterday.
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crabmeat thompson
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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by crabmeat thompson » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:23 am

you do realise this could all be normal activity we're seeing here, shearer? it's only now we're looking for them, and recording/ tracking their movements.
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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by steve shearer » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:31 am

That is a theory, there's just been too much evidence to the contrary: from pro fishos, DPI, CSIRO and life long surfers, not to mention the attack clusters to seriously entertain it.

When a juvenile white shark washed up on main beach Byron in 2007 the manager of the newly minted Cape Byron Marine Park refused to believe it because white sharks were not considered a species found with any regularity in the park.

That obviously is not the case now.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by crabmeat thompson » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:45 am

bull sharks have been around in mass numbers for eons, and that is still the most common shark tagged and pinging the receivers.

and they're doing it at a number of 3 or 4 to every one gws.
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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by Beanpole » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:51 am

Just remember Ben Cropp introduced the power head speargun in the sixties and proceeded to blast every shark he could find around SE Queensland and Nth NSW. Mostly Grey Nurses but anything was fair game.

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Re: Nth NSW sharks. Can they p!ss off already?

Post by steve shearer » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:30 am

crabmeat thompson wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:45 am
bull sharks have been around in mass numbers for eons, and that is still the most common shark tagged and pinging the receivers.

and they're doing it at a number of 3 or 4 to every one gws.
Not around here. Overwhelmingly it is white sharks that are caught on the drumlines and that are seen by aerial surveillance and are pinging the receivers.

Toots put the stats up a few posts back.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

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