Just general surfing stuff

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ajohnsen
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by ajohnsen » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:02 am

Whether or not it's endemic or isolated is, to some degree, irrelevant, the point of difference between men's and women's experience is, as Nick replied to one commentator, "because of the wider background of domestic violence in the culture, and partly because women are often at a physical disadvantage to men in or out of the water."

The piece should be read in the broader context of violence towards women in our society, not just as surf-specific.

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Thud
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Thud » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:16 am

Totally agree
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Kunji » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:20 am

https://www.instagram.com/p/BpaCPKQFzUs ... ayqaft2yro

Yuck here is that new fake wave in the qld dam.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Beanpole » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:49 am

ajohnsen wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:02 am
Whether or not it's endemic or isolated is, to some degree, irrelevant, the point of difference between men's and women's experience is, as Nick replied to one commentator, "because of the wider background of domestic violence in the culture, and partly because women are often at a physical disadvantage to men in or out of the water."

The piece should be read in the broader context of violence towards women in our society, not just as surf-specific.
I tend to agree with Thud.....but you are dead right, AJ. :-D-:
Two things: Male responses to physical threat are dependent on the perceived likelihood and ability to deal with potential threats. The simple fact that most women whip out their phone every time they see a man approaching on a deserted street is an example. Of course some women just always have their phone out anyway.

The other thing..and this is very much evident in congested surf environments.....is the range of awareness of what's taking place. A surfer who's barely at an intermediate level and who has taken it up as an adult finds it difficult to read a number of situations in the surf.

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BA
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by BA » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:06 am

Kunji wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:20 am
https://www.instagram.com/p/BpaCPKQFzUs ... ayqaft2yro

Yuck here is that new fake wave in the qld dam.
What a monstrosity. Wonder how loud it is.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Cranked » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:32 am

I haven't seen any incidents of aggression in Indonesia ever. Heard about a few though.

Its more enjoyable surfing with a bunch of good surfers though as the lineup works much better.

Too many learners and intermediates is more often a dangerous shit fight though. I can remember paddling into a good takeoff zone 20m closer to shore than the pack (which had drifted off) and thinking this is probably the most dangerous thing I've done all year.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by BA » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:17 am

There was a stack more women surfing up on the mid-north coast than in Sydney. At least a 1/3 of the pack out at Scotts Head one morning were women. I reckon it mellows out the vibe.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by offshore1 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:03 pm

Any impressions on arse attire Ba?
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by tootr » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:25 pm

Maybe BA was wearing the new, “Nick Carroll Surf Blinkers”. (Patent pending).
These little rippers allow the user a massive 35 degree field of vision, thus significant reducing not only the temptation, but the basic ability, to even catch a sly glance at passing buttocks.

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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Nick Carroll » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:36 pm

godsavethequeen wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:00 am
Well, judging by "Annie*, also in her mid-30s, has experienced plenty of verbal abuse" and "Briella*, 24, is a highly skilled Sydney surfer who says she had “dealt with just heaps of sexist crap throughout the years" and "Byron-raised surfer and University of Queensland lecturer Rebecca Olive says she has experienced many incidents of male aggression in the surf", it appears to be something that's embedded in the Australian woman's surf experience. Yes, there is a faint possibility that Nick's survey can be dismissed for catastrophic selection bias and that he's attempting to generalise from the only three women in Australia who have been subject to this type of thing, although it seems unlikely. What I do know is that it's nigh on impossible for blokes like you and me to hypothesise about this because we just don't have the experience. There was something on Twitter the other day where a woman asked the question to other women about what they would do if there was a mandatory 9pm curfew on men and the answers were things like, go for a run on my own; walk home when it's dark, that sort of mundane thing that you and I do without a second thought but which many women don't do because of the perceived threat.
I spoke with 15 of the 17 women we talked with for the piece, not all of whom I knew prior to the research. All are from the Aust east coast btw. Since then I've been contacted by maybe a dozen more women, aside from those who've commented on Facey or in other places about the piece. All except one have had experiences similar to the accounts in the piece. I am really striving not to make comment on any of it, partly because it's not "my" story -- my surfing experience is radically different to theirs -- and partly because I kinda think it's good to just listen to or read the accounts and not sorta mansplain them away. The threats and bullying really do seem very gender specific in most cases, not all, and it's totally left a mark. For instance, quite a few women chose not to be interviewed or even to offer up their accounts for the research, partly because I'm a well known older male surfer, possibly quite similar to the person who's abused them in the surf; as one told a friend, "Why would I tell HIM my story?"

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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Nick Carroll » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:46 pm

Oh I should add that it's no good relying on your own observations in the surf when trying to assess this issue, I am fairly observant in the water and I haven't seen any overt male aggression toward women surfers at all. I've heard some dumb shit said about women in the surf but never seen it play out. So these accounts are coming as much a surprise to me as anyone. I wonder if the thing Rebecca Olive describes in the piece, the taboo against aggro and violence toward women, means that it doesn't always play out in front of the pack -- again like domestic violence in a way, which often occurs behind closed doors, maybe in front of kids or other enmeshed family members. The aggressor doesn't want to be witnessed by a neutral party.

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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Thud » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:58 pm

Hmmm define threat. A few years back I called a women surfer off a wave. Just a mid wave "yep" as she was about to go over the falls in front of me. It was for her protection rather than the concern for a 3ft clean face.

Said woman lost her shit and said Id called too loudly and aggressively. To be frank, I didn't know what to say, so I paddled over to her later and said "everyone has the right to learn to surf and it can get quite busy. I called out for your own protection". She just ignored me. I thought what a rude cow, however in resprospect I may have frightened her, twice. It's like young people in the surf. Somethimes you forget youre 50 year old Silverback in the surf. There's a responsibility, no doubt.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Beanpole » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:04 pm

I had a female surfer who dropped in on me a while ago make a major effort to paddle over and apologise. I said no worries as the surf was ordinary anyway but it was the second time she did it. The other time I just went right because I could see it was going to happen. She is out there a lot though and her sons surf pretty well.

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BA
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by BA » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:22 pm

offshore1 wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:03 pm
Any impressions on arse attire Ba?
Plenty of those high-cut floral wetsuits, that I can tell you.
Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you’re just a stupid cunt.

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BA
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by BA » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:24 pm

Nick Carroll wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:46 pm
I wonder if the thing Rebecca Olive describes in the piece, the taboo against aggro and violence toward women, means that it doesn't always play out in front of the pack -- again like domestic violence in a way, which often occurs behind closed doors, maybe in front of kids or other enmeshed family members. The aggressor doesn't want to be witnessed by a neutral party.
Reckon this may be pretty accurate.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Beanpole » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:48 pm

On a related theme. I've seen a few tv talk shows on the ABC where the issue of men's behaviour in the workplace and the Metoo Movement has come up. The politically correct ABC type male presenters have said it makes them wary about how they interact and puts them off any idea of flirting or suggestive behaviour. Female presenters totally disagree. Stereotypical responses on both sides.

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Cranked
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Cranked » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:13 pm

BA wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:24 pm
Nick Carroll wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:46 pm
I wonder if the thing Rebecca Olive describes in the piece, the taboo against aggro and violence toward women, means that it doesn't always play out in front of the pack -- again like domestic violence in a way, which often occurs behind closed doors, maybe in front of kids or other enmeshed family members. The aggressor doesn't want to be witnessed by a neutral party.
Reckon this may be pretty accurate.
Agree.
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offshore1
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by offshore1 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:32 pm

Bullshit.

Nobody here has ever seen it.
Behind closed doors indeed.
Bad as conspiracy theories.
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