Just general surfing stuff

Can't find the right forum, then post your general surf-related remarks here!

Moderators: Butts, beach_defender, Shari, collnarra, Forum Moderators

User avatar
steve shearer
Huey's Right Hand
Posts: 25107
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:20 pm

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by steve shearer » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:03 pm

Not picking an argument, I genuinely believe what you are saying is nonsense. I think you don't know what the fcuk you are talking about and are using language that is so broad as to be meaningless and conflating concepts and creating an impression that is hideously inaccurate. And I do say that with sincere respect.

Not dissing Nicks' excellent article either, or trying to dismiss the horrific accounts contained within it.
I've shared it with a lot of people and asked for their reaction, most of them women.

I think it's a vital contribution to starting a conversation about what is going on here and how are women being treated in the surf.

Men need to do this. The problem, whether it has a sexist element or not, is overwhelmingly male violence, intimidation, threat.

It is important to discuss your own situation and what you see.......are they your mates, is it you?

As I said before though, I'm very squeamish about having the Lennox incident being used as a way to conflate this issue with domestic violence, or other current issues.

I was there that day, I know the protagonists, I know the background, the context.

This may end ups being a classic surf rage incident on a very crowded day....nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that the complainant is female.

That may be the case for some of the incidents detailed in Nicks story. Not all, but some.

That doesn't mean soul searching and conversation isn't in order.........just that I am very wary about jumping to huge conclusions.

Personally, I'm much more inclined to give a girl an even break....call her into one.That seems chivalrous to me, it might seem condescending
to a certain girl. My wife, and lot of her friends, hate any kind of mansplaining in the lineup. They just want to catch their waves and have fun without some toe-rag telling them how do it.

I admit this winter the crowd here took on an entirely different dimension.......lots and lots of euros and South Americans in the line-up, guys and girls, of varying abilities, some with very different ideas about surf etiquette to a settled Australian line-up.Or no idea. That meant I was often in a pack competing -hard- with both guys and girls.

There was a lot of tension in the line-up here this winter.
That seemed to explode into violence on a few occasions and it's possible that this incident was directly related to that.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

User avatar
ajohnsen
Duke Status
Posts: 10386
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:38 am
Location: Marrickville

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by ajohnsen » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:20 pm

Mate, you exhaust me.

User avatar
steve shearer
Huey's Right Hand
Posts: 25107
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:20 pm

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by steve shearer » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:15 pm

Instead of playing the man, why not play the ball AJ.\\


What are your experiences in the line-up?
What have you seen, heard etc etc?

Is there a strong female presence in the surf you ride?
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

User avatar
offshore1
Duke Status
Posts: 10828
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:40 am

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by offshore1 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:24 pm

Well I'm talking surfing . Just surfing here in this conversation.
I had a great surf yesterday, catching the tail end of the hurricane that recently hit Mexico and, very unusually, came all the way up here through North Carolina and spawned an offshore low.
So like any day, but especially good days, here's what most people who surf do: nowadays check the cams to pick the initial general location.
On the beach waxing up survey up and down for the best break/crowd ratio.
Paddling out pay close attention to current, sand bar orientation.
Pay very close attention to every other surfer out, their ability level, aggressiveness.
Find a promising spot in the pack, not right at the best spot right away but as close as you can without being a dick.
Snag any wide waves and ride them well.
Do not fall.
Watch all the others and gauge ability levels .
Move to better position in lineup as opportunity allows.
It's pure dog eat dog Darwinism. Always has been.

In North Carolina anyway, despite that, (maybe because of that [mating rituals]) girls more often than not are given more latitude than guys.
If they suffer a bump in the rough and tumble, well, join the club.

User avatar
steve shearer
Huey's Right Hand
Posts: 25107
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:20 pm

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by steve shearer » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:44 pm

Many girls surfing there Offy?
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

User avatar
offshore1
Duke Status
Posts: 10828
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:40 am

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by offshore1 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:46 pm

On warm small glassy days yes.
Big gnarly cold stormy, not so much.

User avatar
offshore1
Duke Status
Posts: 10828
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:40 am

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by offshore1 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:53 pm

It should be mentioned here that women live much longer than men.

User avatar
Wyre
barnacle
Posts: 1971
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 6:23 pm

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Wyre » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:13 pm

More time in the surf?
godsavethequeen wrote:I wonder if reg is still thrashing the neighbour's elderly poodle with his wattle branch.

Yuke Hunt
Snowy McAllister
Posts: 5197
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:31 pm
Location: Uncrowded

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Yuke Hunt » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:27 pm

Nick Carroll wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:44 am
until I got too big
:shock:
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on ... now all thy piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel even half a line ... nor all thy tears wash out a single word of it.

User avatar
Thud
Owl status
Posts: 3996
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:21 pm

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Thud » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:08 pm

Today, paddling back to the line up, an older Japanese women couldn't stand up and she kicked out and hit me. I thought about this article. I did what most would do, checked my head for cuts, my board for dings and paddled off with a wry smile (possibly a head shake. Ok yes, a head shake). She was oblivious to the incident. Meanwhile a group of mummy surfers where chatting away. I think the point is girls just don't care as much as lads do. It's a penis thing (or penis size thing)
Last edited by Thud on Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ultimately a hero is a man who would argue with the gods, and so awakens devils to contest his vision.

User avatar
steve shearer
Huey's Right Hand
Posts: 25107
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:20 pm

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by steve shearer » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:12 pm

Care about what?

You want to see absolutely unbridled aggression, go on a Mummy blog and get into a debate about breast feeding, or vaccination.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

User avatar
Thud
Owl status
Posts: 3996
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:21 pm

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Thud » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:14 pm

Surfing and line up and the informal laws that govern it.

I'll pass on the milking mummas. You might want as well you kinky beast.
Ultimately a hero is a man who would argue with the gods, and so awakens devils to contest his vision.

User avatar
BA
Snowy McAllister
Posts: 7452
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:03 pm
Location: tits

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by BA » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:22 pm

Thud wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:14 pm
Surfing and line up and the informal laws that govern it.
Mmmm disagree. My Mrs is acutely aware of the intricacies of the line-up. Overly so. She’s super careful to look before taking off to see if someone is inside, positions herself in the line-up so she’s not in the way, always paddles towards the whitewash if someones surfing towards her, and generally just doesn’t be a dick (unlike a lot of guysj. Maybe because she got taught by me and not a surf school. They don’t seem to give a shit.

User avatar
steve shearer
Huey's Right Hand
Posts: 25107
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:20 pm

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by steve shearer » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:23 pm

Depends where you are and the level of surfer- male or female- riding it.

There are women surfers I know who are just as passionate or more so about line-up etiquette than men.

Stereotypes are pretty fcuking useless, I reckon.

edit: see BA's post above.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

User avatar
Thud
Owl status
Posts: 3996
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:21 pm

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Thud » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:38 pm

To be clear, they don't get upset if the "laws" are broken.

Not like some slack jawed yokal that knows not much outside of the line up. At the end of the day it's just sport and humans at play
Ultimately a hero is a man who would argue with the gods, and so awakens devils to contest his vision.

User avatar
steve shearer
Huey's Right Hand
Posts: 25107
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:20 pm

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by steve shearer » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:25 pm

Thud wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:38 pm
To be clear, they don't get upset if the "laws" are broken.

Again, that's just a stereotype.

There's gals here who can very upset if "laws" are broken.
I want Nightclub Dwight dead in his grave I want the nice-nice up in blazes

User avatar
No Pants Lance
Snowy McAllister
Posts: 8486
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:26 am
Location: where wake collide

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by No Pants Lance » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:44 pm

ajohnsen wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:29 am
There's no doubt that there's a certain type of surfer who will exploit what they perceive to be weakness. That notion of weakness takes different forms - kids, kooks, race, age and gender - (as well as a combination) - and different surfers will exploit them in different ways, often informed by their existing biases.

Kids and kooks can move beyond their perceived weakness. Older surfers have, mostly, enjoyed their privilege when they were younger. Gender and race have far more sinister backgrounds that inform the reaction of the surfer experiencing the aggression. So, while the surfer who is asserting his perceived rights - as a local or because of experience - may think that all surfers are equal and that his threats are similarly so, he is either willfully ignorant of these other factors at play, or worse, exploiting them.
steve shearer wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:03 pm
Not picking an argument, I genuinely believe what you are saying is nonsense. I think you don't know what the fcuk you are talking about and are using language that is so broad as to be meaningless and conflating concepts and creating an impression that is hideously inaccurate. And I do say that with sincere respect.

Not dissing Nicks' excellent article either, or trying to dismiss the horrific accounts contained within it.
I've shared it with a lot of people and asked for their reaction, most of them women.

I think it's a vital contribution to starting a conversation about what is going on here and how are women being treated in the surf.

Men need to do this. The problem, whether it has a sexist element or not, is overwhelmingly male violence, intimidation, threat.

It is important to discuss your own situation and what you see.......are they your mates, is it you?

As I said before though, I'm very squeamish about having the Lennox incident being used as a way to conflate this issue with domestic violence, or other current issues.

I was there that day, I know the protagonists, I know the background, the context.

This may end ups being a classic surf rage incident on a very crowded day....nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that the complainant is female.

That may be the case for some of the incidents detailed in Nicks story. Not all, but some.

That doesn't mean soul searching and conversation isn't in order.........just that I am very wary about jumping to huge conclusions.

Personally, I'm much more inclined to give a girl an even break....call her into one.That seems chivalrous to me, it might seem condescending
to a certain girl. My wife, and lot of her friends, hate any kind of mansplaining in the lineup. They just want to catch their waves and have fun without some toe-rag telling them how do it.

I admit this winter the crowd here took on an entirely different dimension.......lots and lots of euros and South Americans in the line-up, guys and girls, of varying abilities, some with very different ideas about surf etiquette to a settled Australian line-up.Or no idea. That meant I was often in a pack competing -hard- with both guys and girls.

There was a lot of tension in the line-up here this winter.
That seemed to explode into violence on a few occasions and it's possible that this incident was directly related to that.

woah, fellas. ease up.

i thought aj made some salient, albeit generalised - in the case of this thread's current issue re women in the lineup - but nonetheless broadly encompassed points.

shep, there's more than a wiff of narkie response in your reply despite the ' sincere respect' caveat... which, really mate, you don't show with aggressive language " ..."you don't know what the fcuk you are talking about..." it's a worringly recurrent refrain ol' son.
'ts all good to claim your own chivalry, and props to you, but, let's not stray from the open discussion here.

the issue of race is a pertinant one, again, albeit beyond the framing of this 'women in the lineup' discussion.

you yourself Steve have invoked it - Euro/Israeli/Brazzo at al, hodads, whatevs, clogging up lineups in the Ments or elswhere even..
It's an issue as relevant here in Sydney, as the one of women in the lineup. The shitty nature of some foreigners' attitude and behaviour is of concern more often than not. And, it's an example of the "far more sinister background" aj refers to, permeating the dymanic of some of the lineups here.

The Lennox incident appears to be one of both sides of the fractious nature of lineups - unbridled, aggressive self entitlement AND, if it is as has been reported, one of direct misogyny.

While it mightn't be, as you Steve have made a point of saying, something to be conflated with domestic violence against women, it's not hard to draw parallels to it by virtue of an underlying correlation between the troubling behaviour of men, not just in surf zones, but in the general public, on social media, in the home.

User avatar
Thud
Owl status
Posts: 3996
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:21 pm

Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Thud » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:48 pm

In MY experience, in the surf anyway, I find women a lot more patient than males, less aggressive and generally forgiving when the so called line up laws are breached. And on the whole a lot more interesting to surf with than boring cnts talking about swell directions, tide times and finishing each sentence with "ay". They freshen up the place.

Goddamit I dig those ladies.
Ultimately a hero is a man who would argue with the gods, and so awakens devils to contest his vision.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests