Just general surfing stuff

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tootr
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by tootr » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:50 pm

And in other news there's a WSL contest on. In 2-3 foot surf.

Zzzzzzzz......
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The Mighty Sunbird
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by The Mighty Sunbird » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:15 pm

MR once told me 'There's nothing soulful about going ten rounds with a shit blank'
Erase.

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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by godsavethequeen » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:43 pm

steve shearer wrote: Huh?

I'm not sure what the hell you are saying there.

That Tomo's Modern Planing Hulls aren't radically different from either a: the modern pointy nosed shortboard

or b: all the flavours of pure retro designs from Fish to MId-lengths. ?

Yes, the design is evolving towards more natural looking curves but still, the Omni is a radically different board to what was an acceptable shortboard 5 years ago.
Evolving or regressing? And when you say 'natural looking curves', what exactly do you mean? Is this not just confirmation bias writ large?
steve shearer wrote:
I think CAD design is inherently more conservative and less radical than handshaping because it uses less of the available potential of a human being to design something.
My turn to say Huh? Shall we agree to file that one away under 'horseshit' and never speak of it again?
steve shearer wrote:

CAD gave us the Hypto Krypto.

Handshaping gave us the Modern Planing Hull.
Reductive nonsense

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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by crabmeat thompson » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:47 pm

there's no question cad shapes are more effective, and practical. if you're not using one today, you're falling behind the curve.

my perception is; hand shapers who have a mastered the art of hand shaping, make better boards on their cad machines, than the 'shapers' who have come along and just learned how to cut n paste, and operate their cad machine.

my perception could well be wrong. hell, it's rarely right. but for some reason, i walk the streets of palm beach thinking this.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by brendo » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:54 pm

hey nick, is it true you ordered another myers channel bottom as well??!

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steve shearer
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by steve shearer » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:12 pm

godsavethequeen wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:43 pm

I think CAD design is inherently more conservative and less radical than handshaping because it uses less of the available potential of a human being to design something.
My turn to say Huh? Shall we agree to file that one away under 'horseshit' and never speak of it again?



Well, I presented a working hypothesis with a reasonable scientific mechanism for it and a weight of evidence.

You could apply the same principles to architecture......have we superseded the pyramids or the sistine chapel since the age of the computer?

Don't even think about saying Dubai.


You didn't even attempt to engage with the substance of the argument, you went straight for the man not the ball and frankly I'm very disappointed Godsave.

Haven't you got chops in science or something?
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godsavethequeen
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by godsavethequeen » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:29 pm

Mmmm, chops

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Cranked
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Cranked » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:08 pm

Come on Godsave, I expect far better - I had hoped you were just warming up with those initial sallys. Steve is obviously in there for the long haul.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by ctd » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:43 pm

Anyone read 'the critical surf studies reader'?

https://www.dukeupress.edu/the-critical ... ies-reader

The evolution of surfing—from the first forms of wave-riding in Oceania, Africa, and the Americas to the inauguration of surfing as a competitive sport at the 2020 Tokyo Olympics—traverses the age of empire, the rise of globalization, and the onset of the digital age, taking on new meanings at each juncture. As corporations have sought to promote surfing as a lifestyle and leisure enterprise, the sport has also narrated its own epic myths that place North America at the center of surf culture and relegate Hawai‘i and other indigenous surfing cultures to the margins. The Critical Surf Studies Reader brings together eighteen interdisciplinary essays that explore surfing’s history and development as a practice embedded in complex and sometimes oppositional social, political, economic, and cultural relations. Refocusing the history and culture of surfing, this volume pays particular attention to reclaiming the roles that women, indigenous peoples, and people of color have played in surfing.

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godsavethequeen
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by godsavethequeen » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:20 pm

steve shearer wrote: Well, I presented a working hypothesis with a reasonable scientific mechanism for it and a weight of evidence.
I really think you didn't
steve shearer wrote: You could apply the same principles to architecture......have we superseded the pyramids or the sistine chapel since the age of the computer?
Did we supersede the pyramids in the many, many years between their completion and the invention of the computer? No we did not. To pin their baffling excellence on just one element of their creation is arrant piffle
steve shearer wrote: You didn't even attempt to engage with the substance of the argument, you went straight for the man not the ball and frankly I'm very disappointed Godsave.
Au contraire. The core of my argument is that the surfboard's form is currently dictated by the inherited received wisdom and collective conservatism of the buying market. The Slater Omni might look a little bit different in near focus, but draw back a bit and it's still readily identifiable as a surfboard. If I showed it to my missus in a line up of other boards I'm pretty sure she wouldn't pick it as anything unusual. CAD has improved boards, of course it has, but in terms of changes to the form shapers are still only tinkering around the edges.

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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by jimmy » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:27 pm

crabmeat thompson wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:47 pm
there's no question cad shapes are more effective, and practical. if you're not using one today, you're falling behind the curve.

my perception is; hand shapers who have a mastered the art of hand shaping, make better boards on their cad machines, than the 'shapers' who have come along and just learned how to cut n paste, and operate their cad machine.

my perception could well be wrong. hell, it's rarely right. but for some reason, i walk the streets of palm beach thinking this.
He speaks the truth! I have happily purchased boards from people who only CAD shape now. However all of them have spent a significant amount of time hand shaping back in the day. Some Johnny come lately who nicks other people's designs? Ain't nobody got time for that.
Last edited by jimmy on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by brendo » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:43 am

hey jimmy,I know a Sydney shaper that after only a few years hand shaping got an AKU and first thing I saw was one of gunthers boards get copied.
then he got a website and a list of models.and his boards were all of a sudden a lot better. so yea, people do have time for that!

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Cranked
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Cranked » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:36 am

When someone is hand shaping there are distinct advantages.

First you can engage your tactile senses. You can run your hands along the rails, feel the transition to the deck, feel the concave. The tactile sense can be more acute than the visual at times.

Geoff McCoy does a loaded dome. It's often very hard to see, but run your hand over it and you can feel it. You can feel the various bottom curves meeting to form that dome even if you can't see it. You can also feel a finer, lower, smaller diameter curve on what appears to be fat larger diameter rails.

And visually, you can rotate and view your shape with CAD, but it's a very small image and it cannot compare with the actual board that you can view from different angles and with the light hitting it just so to reveal the curves.

Also balance. You can pick the board up and feel it's weight and balance points. You can't get that feel from CAD.

So a hand shaper gets a much more visceral feel for a shape and brings more senses into play when doing it, so he may be more effective at creating an idealised shape than he would with CAD (but get it scanned and keep a digital copy so it doesn't have to be shaped again and can be readily modified for custom orders).

Alternatively, he may be able to still bring that knowledge and experience with him to some extent when using CAD.
“I don’t necessarily agree with everything I say ”— Marshall McLuhan

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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by crabmeat thompson » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:50 am

CAD is for mass production.
CAD has allowed for (some) shapers to flood the market – both online & in stores.
therefore, one could argue: as a result CAD is damaging the environment.

One respected shaper (here) was at the glasser recently when one of the big players in the mass production game ordered the glasser to be light on the glass – as in under the 4 x 4 they advertise. the same shaper also reports similar dealings at the blanks factory, where they're chasing less durable & softer blanks.

the reason being, surfer's will crease, buckle and break the board a lot quicker than usual, therefore coming back and buying another one in a quicker timeframe than what they would have say, 3-4 years ago.

none of the tricks going down in the industry are very cool. all for the sake of dollar. all at the expense of the very thing surfers tout and covet the most. a clean & healthy environment.
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steve shearer
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by steve shearer » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:01 am

It's going to be interesting, because I am about to get my first off the rack poly board (assume machine shape) from a big manufacturer for years.

It'll be interesting to see how durable it is.
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tootr
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by tootr » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:12 am

I rang up a shop which had a couple of stock boards from a shaper that would otherwise take months to get a custom.
Asked about the glass job and the guy proudly blurts out - oh yeah mate it's ultra lite.
No thanks.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Beerfan » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:26 am

It's just plain wasteful hey. And surely there are enough viable new tech light weight alternatives that could replace lightly glasses poly for those who are that way inclined ( hi perf surfers ).
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by buddy » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:19 am

steve shearer wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:01 am
It's going to be interesting, because I am about to get my first off the rack poly board (assume machine shape) from a big manufacturer for years.

It'll be interesting to see how durable it is.
When was the last time a standardish thruster was in your regular lineup?

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