Just general surfing stuff

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Cranked
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Cranked » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:45 pm

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Christenson the guy whose done all his shaping using CAD, that is, no real experience hand shaping.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Nick Carroll » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:20 pm

steve shearer wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:34 pm
I saw a guy on a new Christenson get so rag-dolled on the rock-off on Sunday.

Why do you think he is the best designer in the world Nick?
He seems to be able to design and shape pretty much anything, from supergun paddle-in craft for Jaws etc (see Greg Long, numerous others) to classic Fish and longboards, to epic tube riding 6' plus pintails, without missing a beat. Like really without missing a beat. Every single good surfer I know who has one or more of his boards, and this is right across the spectrum of those designs, kind of slightly drools when the subject comes up. All the boards I've seen of his, from Greg's Eddie winning quiver of 2009 to an 8'0" semi longboard he shaped for my brother's partner to a bunch of different craft I've seen in CA and here, including several six channel swallows I saw today, just reeked of pure class, wonderful combinations of rocker, outline, foil and bottom lines. On this basis I am willing to trust his skills beyond any other shaper right now for a board I want to ride at the edge of my capabilities, in Sydney area surf barely anyone has yet ridden. So I am voting with my money and my sense of what's required for those waves.

I should add I think there's a few other designers who are in that kind of league, like Pat Rawson can do all that for sure, Stu Kenson in CA, Gunther Rohn, here in Oz I think Wayne Webster is pretty much the closest thing we have to a true across the board super designer. But yeah, I do think Chris is the guy right now.
Last edited by Nick Carroll on Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Nick Carroll » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:22 pm

Cranked wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:45 pm
And, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Christenson the guy whose done all his shaping using CAD, that is, no real experience hand shaping.
You know what cranked, I love you and all, but honestly, the kind of boards this guy makes, you ain't ever gonna ride. I don't bag you for the McCoy thing. So save it eh.

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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by buddy » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:33 pm

Nick Carroll wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:20 pm

I should add I think there's a few other designers who are in that kind of league, like Pat Rawson can do all that for sure, Stu Kenson in CA, Gunther Rohn, here in Oz I think Wayne Webster is pretty much the closest thing we have to a true across the board super designer. But yeah, I do think Chris is the guy right now.
I'm not arguing with you, more curious, but as a rider of many of MC's boards you don't think he covers the spectrum?

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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Davros » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:46 pm

Nick Carroll wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:03 pm
Davros wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:15 pm
Or Michael Michaelson the Danish boxer from the early 1900's
Yeah I dunno about that either but I think he is pretty much the best surfboard designer in the world right now.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by steve shearer » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:57 pm

Nick Carroll wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:20 pm
including several six channel swallows I saw today, just reeked of pure class,

I have ogled those 6 channels at the Byron store that stocks his boards.

Fair enough, I guess I see him (apart from the guns) as a somewhat derivative shaper/designer.......just about everything I've seen of his seems pretty much a very close replica of someone elses design.
But no doubt he does it all very well and has very good pedigree.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Cranked » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:58 pm

Nick Carroll wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:22 pm
Cranked wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:45 pm
And, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Christenson the guy whose done all his shaping using CAD, that is, no real experience hand shaping.
You know what cranked, I love you and all, but honestly, the kind of boards this guy makes, you ain't ever gonna ride. I don't bag you for the McCoy thing. So save it eh.
Nick, you misunderstood where I was coming from on this. I wasn't bagging him at all. I think CAD design and machine shaping process is infinitely better than hand shaping. It's the since qua non for a lot of reasons.

No way I would ever get a hand shape custom if I could get a CAD custom.

I wondered what your opinion was that was all.

I've believed that CAD and machine shaping was the way to go since the early 80s. Jim Banks always remembers that I told him that at that time and he embraced it as soon as he could, and never looked back.
Last edited by Cranked on Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by saltman » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:09 pm

steve shearer wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:57 pm
Nick Carroll wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:20 pm
including several six channel swallows I saw today, just reeked of pure class,

I have ogled those 6 channels at the Byron store that stocks his boards.

Fair enough, I guess I see him (apart from the guns) as a somewhat derivative shaper/designer.......just about everything I've seen of his seems pretty much a very close replica of someone elses design.
But no doubt he does it all very well and has very good pedigree.
That's a pretty good summation if not a little harsh re derivative
Maybe finesse would be better
Gotta say a few very good surfers with any number of shapers to access , as well as The$$$. Are very enthusiastic about his boards
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Nick Carroll » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:33 am

buddy wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:33 pm
Nick Carroll wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:20 pm

I should add I think there's a few other designers who are in that kind of league, like Pat Rawson can do all that for sure, Stu Kenson in CA, Gunther Rohn, here in Oz I think Wayne Webster is pretty much the closest thing we have to a true across the board super designer. But yeah, I do think Chris is the guy right now.
I'm not arguing with you, more curious, but as a rider of many of MC's boards you don't think he covers the spectrum?
Oh hell yeah, Maurice can cover the spectrum, but mostly doesn't bother, I guess I think he is red hot in some areas, easily the best in super concaves, maybe the best towboard designer, has worked a bit recently on more toned-down boards with great success, some other areas he doesn't do enough in, probably isn't interested more than anything.

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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Nick Carroll » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:42 am

Cranked wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:58 pm
Nick Carroll wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:22 pm
Cranked wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:45 pm
And, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Christenson the guy whose done all his shaping using CAD, that is, no real experience hand shaping.
You know what cranked, I love you and all, but honestly, the kind of boards this guy makes, you ain't ever gonna ride. I don't bag you for the McCoy thing. So save it eh.
Nick, you misunderstood where I was coming from on this. I wasn't bagging him at all. I think CAD design and machine shaping process is infinitely better than hand shaping. It's the since qua non for a lot of reasons.
I don't really know Chris's numbers re hand shaping, I imagine most of his boards are machine cut -- that's pretty standard these days, I've got no hang up with it at all and kinda find the whole hand shape vs machine thing a bit tedious, especially today when so many of the early glitches in the process have been fixed. Shapers used to kill themselves mowing foam from scratch, a lot of great designers will tell you they understand what they are doing way better today as a result of designing off a screen and getting them cut. So yeah.

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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by crabmeat thompson » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:26 am

i think crank's point is a valid one.

is a shaper who's never delved into the art and intricacies of hand shaping, really a shaper?

there's shapers here on the gold coast not worth a pinch of shit. their Dad bought them a CAD machine and they go around copying what works from the real shapers and selling them off as their own.

it's about learning the craft of hand-shaping before graduating to the CAD machine.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by offshore1 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:04 am

or not. Depends on how good the end product goes. Carriages used to be hand crafted.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by offshore1 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:08 am

Plus I thought cranky's point was CAD is the future, espoused by him thirty five years ago.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Nick Carroll » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:50 am

crabmeat thompson wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:26 am
i think crank's point is a valid one.

is a shaper who's never delved into the art and intricacies of hand shaping, really a shaper?

there's shapers here on the gold coast not worth a pinch of shit. their Dad bought them a CAD machine and they go around copying what works from the real shapers and selling them off as their own.

it's about learning the craft of hand-shaping before graduating to the CAD machine.
Really? Who are they? The shapers on the Gold Coast whose parents bought them a machine cutter?

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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Cranked » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:02 am

Doing a few years shaping by hand could be a good thing, but it's probably not necessary is my view.

And obviously, you can start with the CAD version of a board (I've heard security in the shaping machine environment is pretty lax) and tweek it.

You can be sitting there in front of your fcuk off big monitor overlaying shape after shape, spinning them through any angle, making changes, always keeping the file for any board you design for future reference by you or your customer.

How can a handshaper hope to compete, he can't even shape the same board twice, nor keep an accurate record of what he did.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by steve shearer » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:08 am

I think there is an argument to made, that in terms of understanding the compound curves of a surfboard at a visceral level, a solid foundation in handshaping may be valuable.

I really can't see any design breakthroughs that haven't come about from that deep visceral understanding of compound curves and how they relate to a planing hull.

Looking at lines on a screen simply doesn't engage enough of the sensory-motor part of the brain with the imaginative regions of the frontal cortex and thalamus.
Last edited by steve shearer on Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Cranked » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:10 am

I had some discussions with the Force 9 guys around 1980 before anyone was using CAD/CAM for surfboards. But I was way too busy and realised it would take a lot of engineering, but the software was already available though
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Re: Just general surfing stuff

Post by Cranked » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:12 am

steve shearer wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:08 am
I think there is an argument to made, that in terms of understanding the compound curves of a surfboard at a visceral level, a solid foundation in handshaping may be valuable.

I really can't see any design breakthroughs that haven't come about from that deep visceral understanding of compound curves and how they relate to a planing hull.
There's a project for you Steve. Ask the shapers and see what they say.
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