Get this!

[kayu]

By the way it always cracks me up to see shapers claiming 'hand shaping' and raging against 'the machine' when in reality they use a host of machines... and don't really shape by hand much at all. It's a pretty idiotic claim really, but they have to have a straw to clutch at when using a hand held machine is their only claim to fame.

.....very few shapers are still "raging against the machine" , they are raging against people who can't shape or design surfboards , and using the machine to pretend that they can... .....most knock-offs are copied from well known shapers to steal any business they have worked hard to build up over years of hard work.

[kayu]

If followed through, that philosophy would leave you with nothing since you design nothing original and make Geoff McCoy knock off boards yourself.

Actually , I design and shape all my own boards , and sometimes use the "machine"... ......and all McCoy surfboards are designed and shaped by Geoff McCoy who also sometimes uses the machine. The only knock-offs I have ever done are retro and vintage replicas , on the request of the original shaper , or vintage boards by shapers who are no longer with us.....get it right.

[kayu]

As for using McCoy's name to sell my product, it's called acknowledgement of the design...I'm giving credit where it is due... it's the only polite thing to do.

That's the standard bullshit excuse your type always trot out these days to cover your arse when you copy things.. .......using "gullwing" and "McCoy" are part of your business model , and without them interest would be minimal......the annoying thing is that you have bastardized the leading edge..(lol).....and stop pretending you are a polite person Roy.....your not , your just a business man with a marketing strategy.

[Nick Carroll]

roy I've been using your spitfire fin in a 5'11" Bonzer and the board hugely benefits from that fin's upright stature. It's way more inclined to turn more vertically up and down the face and feels faster and freer in the back end. I kinda don't like riding that board in a lot of Sydney conditions but it has definitely become more user friendly. I also plugged it into one of my racing paddleboards and it was slippery as fcuk. If the clubbies let me use it in a race I would like a shot (but they won't, it doesn't fit their "safety" guidelines)

re machines and cad cutting etc, I mean we are all entitled to our surfboard thinking but dead set anyone who thinks surfboard design hasn't been improved by surfboard designers' increasing mastery of the software and the increasing accuracy of the better cutters is just not paying any attention. CAD works way better in every single other area of aero and hydrodynamic design, how do you think people design aircraft and ships and powerboats and racing yachts? Why would you think otherwise about surfboards? It has taken a while for many boardmakers to get the softwares wired and for the machine designers to improve accuracy, cutting heads etc, and for blankmakers to tune their product to machine cutting, but in the past year or so it feels as if a tipping point has been reached with all that stuff. I just rode a whole bunch of shorter hi per boards and little fatties for a couple of weeks in Indonesia and the boards were unbelievably refined and accurate, they were making use of every bit of rail and planing surface.

Oh and the best fins on the trip by a fairly long way were panel glass fins from Soar, made to fit an FCS1 plug, and, you guessed it, CAD cut to the finished item.

Like any long time surfer I have had a shit load of hand made boards, and I reckon I would happily chuck most of them away for one well cut modern board.

[kayu]

Like any long time surfer I have had a shit load of hand made boards, and I reckon I would happily chuck most of them away for one well cut modern board.

Gotta agree with the recent improvement in all cnc tech...the machines are starting to be controlled by the shapers , instead of vice versa.....but no board you have comes off the machine and goes to the glass shop....not one...the final shaping is all done by hand.....and any machine cut is only as good as the data input , or the accuracy of any scan.....if you copy a dog , you can then easily produce thousands more dogs...(lol)

[kayu]

The best machine copied boards Ive ever seen come off Mike Cundith's old pantograph in Byron Bay ....this was years before the KKL was set up in town. That machine produced a dead accurate copy of any plug that was used. Far more labour intensive than a CNC cut , but deadly accurate and true to the design...( particularly the correct rails , which is a common complaint from so many shapers about their machine cuts).....

[Roy_Stewart]

Yikes!... damage control! ^^

[kayu]

Yikes!... damage control! ^^

....how so Roy ?...(lol)

[Roy_Stewart]

roy I've been using your spitfire fin in a 5'11" Bonzer and the board hugely benefits from that fin's upright stature. It's way more inclined to turn more vertically up and down the face and feels faster and freer in the back end. I kinda don't like riding that board in a lot of Sydney conditions but it has definitely become more user friendly. I also plugged it into one of my racing paddleboards and it was slippery as fcuk. If the clubbies let me use it in a race I would like a shot (but they won't, it doesn't fit their "safety" guidelines)

re machines and cad cutting etc, I mean we are all entitled to our surfboard thinking but dead set anyone who thinks surfboard design hasn't been improved by surfboard designers' increasing mastery of the software and the increasing accuracy of the better cutters is just not paying any attention. CAD works way better in every single other area of aero and hydrodynamic design, how do you think people design aircraft and ships and powerboats and racing yachts? Why would you think otherwise about surfboards? It has taken a while for many boardmakers to get the softwares wired and for the machine designers to improve accuracy, cutting heads etc, and for blankmakers to tune their product to machine cutting, but in the past year or so it feels as if a tipping point has been reached with all that stuff. I just rode a whole bunch of shorter hi per boards and little fatties for a couple of weeks in Indonesia and the boards were unbelievably refined and accurate, they were making use of every bit of rail and planing surface.

Oh and the best fins on the trip by a fairly long way were panel glass fins from Soar, made to fit an FCS1 plug, and, you guessed it, CAD cut to the finished item.

Like any long time surfer I have had a shit load of hand made boards, and I reckon I would happily chuck most of them away for one well cut modern board.

Thanks very much for the report, Nick.

You'll probably be inundated with Warp Drive stuff now...

I started reading 'TC' yesterday, I was saving it up fora quiet period but that was a pipe dream so got into it anyway. It's an absorbing read for sure. Tom's just a few months older than me and my friends and I all followed his progress, he seemed more real to us than many of the pros.

[Roy_Stewart]

Yikes!... damage control! ^^

....how so Roy ?...(lol)

Pulling yer leg PL.

Your cup's pretty full, so enjoy!

[spork]

Current technology with blank suppliers blowing shapes and shapers uploading designs on to a CNC cutting machine will eventually disappear. The printed blank of the future will be 100% accurate to the designers plan, in fact the whole board will be printed with rails, fins, leggy plug, rocker, plan shape, thickness distribution and flex pattern etcetera etcetera tuned to the surfers ability/weight/wave type/surfing style etc.
I teach Design and Technology and the kids today are already designing and planning future directions way beyond our limited sphere. They are not limited by the past practices or the history of manufacture techniques, they only see the endless possibilities of computer generated design.
Oh, and Kayu, designers are not inventors and they are not artists. The best designs come from taking current practice and state of the art and improving it. Making it better, cheaper, easier to make, and more acceptable to the target market etc.

[kayu]

Current technology with blank suppliers blowing shapes and shapers uploading designs on to a CNC cutting machine will eventually disappear. The printed blank of the future will be 100% accurate to the designers plan, in fact the whole board will be printed with rails, fins, leggy plug, rocker, plan shape, thickness distribution and flex pattern etcetera etcetera tuned to the surfers ability/weight/wave type/surfing style etc.
.

That's certainly where it's heading in future , but we haven't reached that point just yet...(lol)....the downside of this wonderfull new direction ?.....well , they will be made in China by the millions , and freighted world wide by container loads. They will be dirt cheap to buy , and after you buy them , you won't be able to give one away.......no more surfboard building...just get online , punch in yer info and your brand new shiny board will arrive on the next ship......it's sterile.

[spork]

Scary isn't it! Nah, the china thing is a finite resource and the surfboard manufacturer of the future will have a his printer out the back, along with a massive investment in new tech. He will ask if you want a set of boards with similar specs to suit 2' -3' - 4' - 6' waves. The same basic board tailored to specific waves and conditions. Imagine saying to the designer/shaper "I'm off to Indo in 3 weeks and i'm expecting to to surf lakeys from 3' to 6'". And getting a quiver of boards that suit you and the wave perfectly. They will be packaged in a custom plastic case that fits the three boards snugly and with all accessories included in the package, alternative fins, customised grip deck, colour coordinated with your boardies, backpack, a retractable legrope that will not tangle, built in cameras on the nose, tail and underneath (to catch the reef) and a tethered drone that will follow your every move and document your trip (choose the music track from iTunes). There will be a package of ladyboy/massage/fun girls included in the price.

[Roy_Stewart]

designers are not inventors and they are not artists.

That is the silliest statement I've read for quite a while.

Leonaaaardooooo..... !!!

The best designs come from taking current practice and state of the art and improving it. Making it better, cheaper, easier to make, and more acceptable to the target market etc.

Not the old 'best' clunker again... for your information best means nothing unless qualified, in other words 'best' according to whom and in terms of what?

As far as the 'best' being merely to improve upon existing state of the art, it might be true sometimes but not all of the time. Here's a counter example to your theory, a geocentric armillary sphere:



Other examples abound, for example the jet engine... not achievable via tweaks to the piston engine... need I go on?

I feel sorry for your students, but if as you suggest they are brighter than you, they'll pass it by.



.

[Roy_Stewart]

Scary isn't it! Nah, the china thing is a finite resource and the surfboard manufacturer of the future will have a his printer out the back, along with a massive investment in new tech. He will ask if you want a set of boards with similar specs to suit 2' -3' - 4' - 6' waves. The same basic board tailored to specific waves and conditions. Imagine saying to the designer/shaper "I'm off to Indo in 3 weeks and i'm expecting to to surf lakeys from 3' to 6'". And getting a quiver of boards that suit you and the wave perfectly. They will be packaged in a custom plastic case that fits the three boards snugly and with all accessories included in the package, alternative fins, customised grip deck, colour coordinated with your boardies, backpack, a retractable legrope that will not tangle, built in cameras on the nose, tail and underneath (to catch the reef) and a tethered drone that will follow your every move and document your trip (choose the music track from iTunes). There will be a package of ladyboy/massage/fun girls included in the price.

You sound like an Agenda 21 dystopian.

It's unsurprising that you said 'the manufacturer' rather than using the plural... suggesting that either all manufacturers will be so similar that we can describe them as one or perhaps that there will be only one.

And what about people who didn't go to your class? What happens if they do it some other way even if it doesn't include factors like 'target market'?.... I know... you could just say that they are 'not manufacturers'.... you'd be good at that.... "hand shapers are not manufacturers and artists are not inventors and fish are not bicycles".

May heaven preserve myself and my descendents from school teachers.

[Roy_Stewart]

Scary isn't it!

Nope.

[kayu]

Scary isn't it! Nah, the china thing is a finite resource and the surfboard manufacturer of the future will have a his printer out the back, along with a massive investment in new tech. He will ask if you want a set of boards with similar specs to suit 2' -3' - 4' - 6' waves. The same basic board tailored to specific waves and conditions. Imagine saying to the designer/shaper "I'm off to Indo in 3 weeks and i'm expecting to to surf lakeys from 3' to 6'". And getting a quiver of boards that suit you and the wave perfectly. They will be packaged in a custom plastic case that fits the three boards snugly and with all accessories included in the package, alternative fins, customised grip deck, colour coordinated with your boardies, backpack, a retractable legrope that will not tangle, built in cameras on the nose, tail and underneath (to catch the reef) and a tethered drone that will follow your every move and document your trip (choose the music track from iTunes). There will be a package of ladyboy/massage/fun girls included in the price.

yer on it....wow ....will every family have "his son Elroy" , "daughter Judy" and "Jane his wife" ?......and have a steady job at Spacely Space Sprockets ?......a dog named Tralfazz ?.......there always seems to be a downside to 90% of all new tech , and its conveniently buried under the mandatory mountain of introductory marketing fanfare , until targeted market share has been achieved , a few laws have been changed , the monopolies have been established and the money is in the bank....... consideration to being a genuine advancement is secondary to the projected profit & loss sheet........it's not scarey at all Spork , it's fucking annoying and counter productive.....the constant acceleration in the race for the next big thing leads to exactly where ?........always chew your food 20 times before you swallow it.....or you'll fuck up your digestive system from gluttony.

[spork]

My post was tongue in cheek, duh Roy and Kayu.