Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

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Hatchnam
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Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by Hatchnam » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:38 am

Just finished reading this article from Simon Anderson and his thoughts and experiences with winter guns. Well worth a read... http://simonandersonsurfboards.com/au/2 ... inter-guns

I found myself agreeing 100% on everything he's mentioned. in particular, the conditions are often less than perfect whereby a considerably bigger longer board can be ideal for shifting peaks, lots of water moving etc.

Yes, sometimes just a standard rounded pin step up will be best for the 6-8ft + ranges. But typically only if the conditions are waves are stable and well groomed, and they often aren't.

Down south, there's a huge difference in what's required for bigger swells as an "all rounder" gun vs. what's best for indo reefs, or perfectly manicured SEQ points for that matter. I found that out years ago not longer after moving south, and as a result sold off boards that were no longer suited for down here, and worked on building a quiver for what works.

Though the thing that I find striking, is the lack of "efficient boards" in the line up that will best maximise big south winter swells. Be that in Sydney, or further south. As out of all the punters out there having a dig in the big stuff, most just seem undergunned and blowing or missing waves or fumbling as a result of poorly chosen equipment.

Everyone seems geared up to the hilt with their "summer windswell" type boards, but totally lacking suitable equipment for big winter swells.

Why...?
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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by Nick Carroll » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:09 am

well probably because smaller waves are what most people ride 95% of the time

a good gun is an investment in thinking, money, time, and commitment on the day that has to override work and other things to be worthwhile

I totally agree re big winter Sydney days, razor sharp "step-up" boards make dealing with such surf really hard, you want to paddle fast and be able to drive through wind, chop, bounce etc, which means a good balance of volume and subtle curves

It's not a style of surfing that's for everyone and often only comes from surfing extensively overseas, Hawaii etc. But if guys wanna charge on boards that aren't quite right for the conditions, I'll cheer 'em on, as long as I don't have to rescue them.

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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by Hatchnam » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:38 am

Fwiw, I fkn love it when the conditions are "big and wooly" . It mightn't be perfect, but it's Way More Challenging and unpredictable, which only adds to the excitement. It's Split second stuff, that keeps you on your toes forcing you to acutely aware. No autopilot. But as for the hairiness of it all, it can be greatly overcome, made less threatening, and almost easy .. if you have right equipment.
It's not rocket science, and I reckon there's plenty of surfers that would be out there attacking it a lot more in bigger stuff, but the penny is never gonna drop for them while they persist on trying to use refined step ups, and not winter guns.
Even most shapers out there (on their websites) don't seem to focus on winter guns. It's typically all focused around "travel boards for indo" and fk all for when it's Big and it's Here...
Was refreshing to read what Simon wrote.
Sniff wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:39 am
Not enough for a full handbeak
steve shearer wrote:full dionysian hand jive body torque

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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by foamy » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:59 am

Thanks Hatchnam. That link is good reading.

I also had a moment looking at the first photo. I hadn't seen a photo of Simon surfing for a long time, but that backhand bottom turn, so familiar to me from looking at surfing magazines from 30 plus years ago. Great to see he still has it.

From your link.
Image

From 1981
Image

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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by steve shearer » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:12 pm

He also said the same thing on a Bali blog post he wrote.

Fcuk I hope it doesn't go into mass circulation. I want the herd to remain on their undergunned indo guns when it's pumping.

Another reason, which he alludes to and has been thrashed out on here a bit, is the whole volume question.

Volume has become a bit of a touchstone for surfers, in the sense that you find the "correct" volume for how you surf and then you stick with that, through shortboards, guns etc etc.

I've always called total bullshitt on that .....you want a range of volumes in your quiver depending on what conditions you are intending them for.

This constriction of surfboard dimension according to a correct volume is just caca thinking.

But again, for purely selfish reasons I hope that realisation doesn't attain popular acceptance.
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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by Hatchnam » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:29 pm

Agreed. the whole "single ideal volume". It's total fkn nonsense. Water. Become a part of it, meld accordingly. Don't expect water to fit into "your paradigm". It's not that clever.

And yes, I hope that most still stick with their indo step ups in big winter swells. More waves for me :)
Sniff wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:39 am
Not enough for a full handbeak
steve shearer wrote:full dionysian hand jive body torque

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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by steve shearer » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:39 pm

Hatchnam wrote:Agreed. the whole "single ideal volume". It's total fkn nonsense. Water. Become a part of it, meld accordingly. Don't expect water to fit into "your paradigm". It's not that clever.

what?
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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by Hatchnam » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:45 pm

You know what I mean. Don't expect all conditions to suit your volume. Instead choose your volume to suit the conditions.

I was just putting a sarcastic hippy spin on it. Thought you'd have caught my vibe .
Sniff wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:39 am
Not enough for a full handbeak
steve shearer wrote:full dionysian hand jive body torque

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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by alakaboo » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:52 pm

Think hatchnam spent a bit long sniffing the resin when he did up the art on that single fin

I've got an Indo gun, I may never use in the intended waves but I was curious and it was cheap (anyone want to buy a 6'8"thruster?)

Your boards need to suit the waves, that's for sure. And a winter gun is about as much use to me as tits on a bull.
Living where I do there are probably 3 days a year where I may need a winter gun, the chance of that day coinciding with me having the chance to go surfing is almost zero.
Small wave boards make more sense.

When in Sydney I had boards that worked best from 3-8ft or a bit bigger, since moving back north I've been getting my 1-4ft boards dialled in. Tried a few different shapes etc. and I'm pretty close to having 3 boards that suit everything I'm likely to encounter.

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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by marauding mullet » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:09 pm

I've always associated swallow tails with fishy type boards, for smaller fatter waves but I have recently noticed that some of the well known shapers have a swallow tail model in the bigger day models or at least a swallow tail option for an existing rounded pin model.
It's always a very small tucked in swallow too for those bigger day models.
So what's the theory behind this design? The rounded pin has always been the default tail for the majority of these boards, what's the theory behind the baby swallow tail? Maybe it's just personal preference thing.
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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by Hatchnam » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:11 pm

mentone mansions wrote:very small tucked in swallow too for those bigger day models.
i've noticed that also on the "reefy/indo type guns" out there, and know that Murray Bourton is big into it. one of my mates has one of his "reef swallow" boards. narrow, pinched in etc.. i've given it a run before 'once' in 6foot plus surf, but again it was SEQ points, not south winter swells. the pinched in swallow seemed to give a good trade-off between drive off the back (straighter rail line exiting the tail vs a pin), and sensitivity (but not quite as much as a pin, but still enough). the pinched in swallow felt good mid-face, check-turns, adjusting pump/trim line etc... again though, for down here - i'd prefer a proper pintail for the job (or pinched in rounded pin at the very least). as in big winter swells you tend not to need drive to generate speed, as there's gonna be plenty of it. fine sensitivity and control of speed is probably higher on the agenda, all of which a pintail will provide.
Sniff wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:39 am
Not enough for a full handbeak
steve shearer wrote:full dionysian hand jive body torque

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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by el rancho » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:01 pm

i'm confused. that simon anderson link you posted has him riding a swallowtail.

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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by Hatchnam » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:27 pm

yes he does, and not to say a swallow won;t work, as it obviously will. it's not my preference though. i was just giving my opinion on pulled in swallows for guns based on MM's question. that's all. my whole theme of the thread was why-t-f are people down here trying to use indo-steps ups as winter guns? because those board mostly suck for big shifty winter swells...
Sniff wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:39 am
Not enough for a full handbeak
steve shearer wrote:full dionysian hand jive body torque

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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by steve shearer » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:03 pm

It's because of the fact that they are are sheep and that is what the surf mags have been telling them to ride......and bizarrely Big Simon is the first surfer/shaper of note to come out in public and say what he did.
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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by marauding mullet » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:29 pm

Around my neck of the woods I've noticed the trend for some to stick with a small board which to my eyes looks under gunned, but I'd say the ratio is around 50/50 when it's a wild and wooly 8-10' here.
The other 50% bring out the 7' boards and do pretty well on them. MR boards are popular here as you can imagine, and as I mentioned his baby swallow tails seems to be popular.
The only spot in town that really holds up at that size is a real slog to paddle out, there's no easy way, it's only for those with stamina to burn.
So maybe duck diving is the reason some guys stick with shorter boards?
Also I'd say from my experience fwiw, that board length doesn't automatically relate to paddling speed, there are some strange anomalies there that I haven't quite worked out.
For me at least, once I'm up on my feet on a big wave, there's no substitute for some decent rail in the water.
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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by steve shearer » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:31 pm

love a baby swallow.

I need one in the quiv.
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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by Hatchnam » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:24 pm

Great reading. gaggles of twits spending $$$$ to go on surfing travel safaris and failing on 6'1 squash tails in sizeable powerful surf. love it :lol:
Sniff wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:39 am
Not enough for a full handbeak
steve shearer wrote:full dionysian hand jive body torque

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Re: Winter Guns... Wherefore art thou ..?

Post by Cuttlefish » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:31 pm

Here's Grant Miller's semi-gun page which is interesting.
http://www.grantmillersurfboards.com.au/boards/semigun
He also has a gun page.
No need for any kind of board but a groveller for so long here I'd be terrified at the sight of any decent sized wave.
But I've got a big board in the rafters of the shed with a thick coating of dust on it...just in case.
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