Boards that "die"

[booradley]

Why do boards lose their "zing"?
Notwithstanding waterlogging...or can this be done by stealth? I.e. without the usual yellowing.
Or when I have a series of ordinary surfs is it just me?

[Beanpole]

Dunno about that but getting a fin box ripped out doesn't do them much good.
PU surfboards are basically overpriced pieces of shite for the money.

I've got two tuflites, one FireWire and two fibreglass boards one being a mal I've owned for 10 or something years. Mal has been hammered and still rides like a Cadillac. Fish is shockingly easy to ding. FireWire okay strength wise. Tuflites can be put away and used when required and remain as new.

[Beerfan]

I've been ruined by josh dowling. Light, fast, lively and strong.

If you're happy to upgrade every year, standard light poly boards are great. Or you can get yourself a nice new tech board that's lighter and lasts longer, and makes you surf better than you should.

[steve shearer]

polys are half the price of a tech board, surf better, are far, far easier to repair ( the most poignant sight this holidays: FW owners trudging back from the Point with their tail between their legs after dinging their boards on the rocks paddlng out)....no waves caught because their boards immediately begin sucking water.

with the slightest bit of compromise on the lamination schedule a poly will last 2-3 years with heavy use.

nothing feels as good as a poly.

[speedneedle]

A typical lightweight polyurethane/polyester board will begin to lose the new feeling in short months.

1) - Polyurethane is like pavlova crust - the cell structure has limited memory...every flex and heel push is crunching the cells and they don't bounce back.

The reactive agent in polyurethane is water - when a ding is left open, water gets in, your ding goes brown and mushy after a while - this is the water literally degrading the foam.

2) - Polyester resin has less molecular bonds than epoxy - the resin itself is cracking up on a microscopic level with repeated flexing in use, as well as expansion and contraction - in and out of warm cars, say. As it fatigues, the board lose further spring.

Same reason Boeing Jets are retired after a few decades - fatigue.

3) - Lastly, the glass itself. Fibreglass is glass. Bend your window pane and it'll break. There are millions of microscopic fractures happening in your board right now.

The combination of these things is the reason standard boards go brown and lose twang.

Take the wood centre stringer out of the equation and you have a floppy sponge.

It's all only become an issue in living memory, when 4 ounce glass jobs and featherweight foam moved from being an option to shop standard. The earliest of these while I was still a grommy were sold with a disclaimer on any guarantee against breakage.

JD

[crabmeat thompson]

Yeah I'm lucky to get 3 months out of a poly. I still much prefer surfing them ... although epoxy is catching up fast -- and some shapers even overtaking them -- with some of the flex patterns they're getting out of the cores and glassing.

I still haven't had an epoxy with a foil, bottom shape and rails like I can get from say a chris garrett handshape.

Is there a technology gap in the epoxy cores where their bottom (machine generated )shapes are super subtle/shallow bordering on flat?

[Beerfan]

My 5'4" has deep doubles on the bottom. Josh does it by hand though.

Firewires potatoes are machined and have quite deep double through the tail.

[crabmeat thompson]

My 5'4" has deep doubles on the bottom. Josh does it by hand though.

Firewires potatoes are machined and have quite deep double through the tail.

The last few I've had from 3 or 4 different shapers have just been super subtle barely there concaves. At one, I asked for a single into a double and it was dead flat. The board felt lifeless unless it was over 4 foot, which isn't too bad, only it was a groveller made for under 4 foot.

[batoes]

Yeah I'm lucky to get 3 months out of a poly. I still much prefer surfing them ... although epoxy is catching up fast -- and some shapers even overtaking them -- with some of the flex patterns they're getting out of the cores and glassing.

I still haven't had an epoxy with a foil, bottom shape and rails like I can get from say a chris garrett handshape.

Is there a technology gap in the epoxy cores where their bottom (machine generated )shapes are super subtle/shallow bordering on flat?

Wow Braithy, 3 months! What the hell are you doing to those boards!? I've recently gone back to poly after trying various epoxy boards. They both have their usefulness in a quiver. I used an xtr tomo for a time and that thing was indestructible, but quite heavy. Firewire was lovely and light, but dinged up like a lightly glassed poly. Currently surfing some purchos and the glass job on those are top notch and feel like they'll last a good couple of years.

[Indo dreaming]

When people talk about Firewire boards they really should say what type of construction it is/was.

Ive had both FST and Rapid fire (white not bamboo deck) and both constructions are totally different in feel, weight and especially durability.

Basically IMO

FW FST= Ive had four and find there about three times more durable than a standard PU board(four times as durable than super light PU boards like Al mericks etc)
Ive done all kinds of things to them, like bang the tail on rock jumps expecting to see dings but barely find a mark, of my four FW FST board ive only ever had one pressure ding on the bottom of my main board thats over two years old, and slight deck depressions mostly from duck diving knee, although perhaps they might have lost some of that new magic feel they haven't lost that feel like PU board does

While i had one FW white rapid fire, went great super light similar almost identical in feel as PU but even after a few surfs i was getting a few small dings and deck depressions, considering how light it was it was still more durable than a PU board of the same weight but compared to my FW FST boards it was not even half as durable.

[Indo dreaming]

A typical lightweight polyurethane/polyester board will begin to lose the new feeling in short months.

1) -Polyurethane is like pavlova crust- the cell structure has limited memory...every flex and heel push is crunching the cells and they don't bounce back.

The reactive agent in polyurethane is water - when a ding is left open, water gets in, your ding goes brown and mushy after a while - this is the water literally degrading the foam.

2) - Polyester resin has less molecular bonds than epoxy - the resin itself is cracking up on a microscopic level with repeated flexing in use, as well as expansion and contraction - in and out of warm cars, say. As it fatigues, the board lose further spring.

Same reason Boeing Jets are retired after a few decades - fatigue.

3) - Lastly, the glass itself. Fibreglass is glass. Bend your window pane and it'll break. There are millions of microscopic fractures happening in your board right now.

The combination of these things is the reason standard boards go brown and lose twang.

Take the wood centre stringer out of the equation and you have a floppy sponge.

It's all only become an issue in living memory, when 4 ounce glass jobs and featherweight foam moved from being an option to shop standard. The earliest of these while I was still a grommy were sold with a disclaimer on any guarantee against breakage.

JD

Good informative post.

Yes Polyurethane foam is like pavlova crust, press your finger into into it and it dents and stays dented, while polystyrene (EPS) you push your finger into it and its much more likely to return to its shape.

[speedneedle]

Is there a technology gap in the epoxy cores where their bottom (machine generated )shapes are super subtle/shallow bordering on flat?

No - The same machines which cut pre-shapes in PU are used for EPS cores. Any such flatness, versus what you ordered, is either the shaper overriding you (rightly or wrongly...) or being slack.

Flat bottoms are easier to produce, in any construction.

The ultimate surfboard core foam is yet to be developed - there are pros and cons to the two common types available.

EPS "sucks water" - fact. I hate that, and it gets me feeling defensive because my reputation rides on my product.

But it's not a friggin' tradgedy - I deal with it - as a one-man band I have nowhere to hide if a customer finds themselves with a ding that lets water in - no corporate replacement policy or sweet-talking sales chicks.

Imagine millions of bean-bag beads jammed into a tight space. That's EPS, like a 3D jigsaw puzzle. Not all the space between them is jammed shut. These gaps are what takes in water, not the actual beads.

The water however, can be drawn back out. I bung up the air vent with blue- tac, leave the board in the sun or in my heat box - the resulting pressure forces the water back out. Without sun, it's possible with a vacuum cleaner. The dings can then be sanded open as per usual and local heat applied (CAREFULLY).

So crew with JD's take the trade-off of longevity versus ding fix difficulty with some confidence because I'm there with any ding advice.

And there needs to be a clear distinction between a "SLX" type, or Rapidfire or Fibreflex, and a composite such as I build.

The former are merely replacing the core and resin with alternatives - all the techniques used remain the same - shape glass and sand.

Composites on the other hand, Vac-wrap that EPS core in 3mm thick layer of high density foam or Pawlounia that has glass on both sides - sandwich.

So they're harder to ding in the first place, and many standard sort-of shatters and dents are prevented from reaching the EPS core.

Water in polyurethane however...another thing altogether.

I've had to write off some PU boards, where a split on the stomped-in stringer line has let water in, soaked the entire stringer from end-to-end because of foot pressure and flex pumping it through and caused the foam to become a cancerous mush. Like a wet Crunchie bar. When the walls between the cells get crunched or mushy, water travels through it and its waaaaaaay harder to get out!


OK - holiday rant done. JD

[el rancho]

Yeah I'm lucky to get 3 months out of a poly.

jesus what are you doing to them?

[Yuke Hunt]

Yeah I'm lucky to get 3 months out of a poly.

jesus what are you doing to them?

Yeah ... 3 months is just plain silly. What are you riding 4 ounce glass on ultra-light blanks ? Thats ludicrous behaviour ... even by your standards.

[brendo]

Im surfing a old magic 20 year old poly dahlberg atm.

Brown, dinged, snapped and repaired , chipped fins.

Still goes unreal. Ppl are too quick blame their tools rather than the tradesmen.

Its all in your head

an old 'banana' rockered board?

[batoes]

When people talk about Firewire boards they really should say what type of construction it is/was.

Ive had both FST and Rapid fire (white not bamboo deck) and both constructions are totally different in feel, weight and especially durability.

Basically IMO

FW FST= Ive had four and find there about three times more durable than a standard PU board(four times as durable than super light PU boards like Al mericks etc)
Ive done all kinds of things to them, like bang the tail on rock jumps expecting to see dings but barely find a mark, of my four FW FST board ive only ever had one pressure ding on the bottom of my main board thats over two years old, and slight deck depressions mostly from duck diving knee, although perhaps they might have lost some of that new magic feel they haven't lost that feel like PU board does

While i had one FW white rapid fire, went great super light similar almost identical in feel as PU but even after a few surfs i was getting a few small dings and deck depressions, considering how light it was it was still more durable than a PU board of the same weight but compared to my FW FST boards it was not even half as durable.

The firewire i'm referring to is the bamboo Rapidfire - it was the same as lightly glassed poly board imo. The FST board I had felt very similar to the XTR boards i have ridden, but stiffer and XTR is stiff. The bamboo one i demoed was the best of the three. It was light and lively, you could feel the flex through the cutbacks etc - can't speak for the longevity because i only had it for three days.

[Beanpole]

Successfully repaired tuflites with epoxy putty and epoxy plus matting. A bit of touch up paint and its pretty serviceable. As in its lasted for a few years without any problems. You can notice it if you actually look closely but it's pretty sweet. Anyone. Can do it. Barely more complicated than regular repairs.

[crabmeat thompson]

Yeah I'm lucky to get 3 months out of a poly.

jesus what are you doing to them?

I fall on them a bit. And mostly surfing beachies maybe means more unavoidable close outs? Plus the sand around those beachies we surf into Kirra are packed hard like cement when they're on.

This Garrett I got is gonna last longer. I reckon it's the burford blank he uses. Nothing comes close to 'em. imo. Those southcoasts. You look at them and BANG! There's a crease.

That DMS I had. I standing in the door way having a chat to the neighbour and the wind slammed the old wooden door right through it. From rail to rail.

That was a $700 mistake. Haha.

Basically I'm just fcuked.