floatation aid

[marauding mullet]

I inadvertently pulled the rip-cord on my inflatable PFD-1 while getting out of the boat at the ramp one day, much to the amusement of everybody present. There is no way you could swim in one of those things once inflated, you are quite hamstrung.

[SURFFOILS]

that mustve been a laugh for everyone except yourself !!
Part of the problem here is trying to devise something for someone whos unconcious so it has to be self positioning, you cant rely on the surfer pulling a tab or blowing into a tube to inflate something, it has to be automatic.

something like a half t-shirt like the rugby guys use to train in.




something with heaps of room to move but with inbuilt flotation. That neck pillow idea is pretty close to the mark, but it could choke you as its got you around the throat.
if you had something that came up near your face / around your head that would be the best position to keep your face upright but also might bitch slap you silly if it was loose to fly around.
Maybe a short tshirt (above)with smooth permanent floats front and back but its designed to ride up and sit around you head...
needs more thinking....

[SURFFOILS]

All right, here's my one day solution....
Ive had a chat with a few anaethetists about keeping the airway open and they recommend pushing the head slightly forward and tilted slightly upwards, like you're sniffing coffee in another room.
Certainly not having the chin down !

Anyway here's my basic drawing.

The surfers wearing a shortened rashvest (yellow) with two flexible flotation sections (red), one at front, one at back.

Out of the water, the sections sit flat on the upper chest and back, the flotation is segmented so its flexible and doesn't impede paddling.

Side view...



When you hit the water, the sections create enough lift to orientate you head up in a vertical position,
and the flexible sections rise to cradle your head with the mandible slightly elevated.
Anything that goes around your head or face will be perforated to allow water to drain away and for air to be drawn in.
Testing would hopefully show that the flexible sections would lift the jaw from beneath, closing the mouth and preventing any further water being ingested.



http://www.educreations.com/lesson/view ... Aw&ref=app

There's a lot more science to the whole idea and a lot more ideas to test if I, or any of us were to get serious.
But its a start.
Anyone got any ideas ?

[bomboraa]

That is extremely interesting Sir Foils. Many thanks for taking the question seriously. It is indeed a design challenge which deserves attention (and not just for me).
On a side note, have now decided crowded surf has at least one benefit

[Animal_Chin]

There are plenty of PFD's that would suit the intended purpose here, the issue is around manual vs auto inflation.

What about a CO2 powered PFD wirelessly linked to the board?

Won't trigger inflation unless the front foot part of the board has had no pressure for 5-10 secs?

Paddling around, all good. Standing during a wave all good. 5-10 secs off the board and PFD inflates.

[oldman]

I wish you the best of luck Bomboraa in getting back into the water, and by the way, it's farking "flotation"! No additonal 'a'.

[SURFFOILS]

in an environment like the surf , or in any body of water, its a lethal situation to lose conciousness, any flotation device isnt really there to save your life, more to delay death. So I dont think any product colud be considered a life saver.
Ideally its not going to be an ugly lump strapped to your chest but something unobtrusive, in the end if it saves you from drowning the look is less important than the function.
i thought of having lightweight polypropylene cartridges, flat rectangular, holding foam inserts that pop up to cradle the head....

lots of possibilities, but it would need to..
-weigh nothing
- not affect mobility
- not create drag when underwater
-work faultlessly
-not trap fingers, seaweed or legropes
-made of impact and waterproof materials
- positioned close to the head and neck so it functions instantly
-coloured for easy identification in the water. In the surf it could keep your head above water until you regain conciousness but if youve fallen inside the impact zone, your chances of surviving any length of time is greatly reduced so the colours need to be a visual cue to people around you that you require immediate assistance.

[SURFFOILS]

Meet my friend CPR Sam...



Taking a few dimensions to work out the size and shape of any apparatus....







Theres obviously some areas where any apparutus so going to impede the movement of the surfer like on the arms, on top of the shoulders so the obvious area to put anything is at the top of the chest and at the top but not above the shoulders.

A neck brace like this one holds the airway in an optimal position so its a good guide for positioning and dimensions.


It also shows some smart design with the use of thin polypropylene to create affirm but flexible shell, lined with soft EVA foam.


And some construction that creates strength with out thickness.



And something that looks like drainage holes.



All good ideas that have potential to be incorporated into a flotation aid for surfers, clubbies, sailors or anyone on the water.

[bomboraa]

Rock fishoes too Sir Foils. Plenty of them bang their heads as they are washed in.
Whitewater rafters and kayaks as well?
Even new gen parents who are mega safety conscious of their sprogs _ might be attracted when their kids swim in the super crowded local council pool. Incorporate into rashie.
Massive potential market.
Thanks Oldman. And did check spelling of floatation/flotation and apparently both are accepted....so sorta what ever floats ya boat :}

[SURFFOILS]

On the legal angle, watersports are inherently dangerous, it would take a change in the legal system to attribute culpability to a safety product if it went through all the tests and accreditation that's necessary to get a product like this on the market.
And there's always business insurance to cover legal claims. Much like doctors have.
If a product works, and it's used appropriately and an accident still occurs, there may be other external factors that contributed to the accident and that's something no one knows for sure, especially in the surf. Who was the pro guy that drowned at Mavs ? I don't know if his family tried to sue the legrope maker, or the surfboard maker or the maker of the waves because it's such an unknown area to try to prove who's at fault.

In the end and as you've said,
if a product gets your head above the water level, it gives you a chance to breath air not water,
it gives you a chance to be seen rather than sinking into the depths and dying at the end of a legrope,
and it gives you a chance to regain consciousness and save yourself.

We all know the scene, you're watching big surf pound in, ( and 'big' is a relative term) and you say to yourself... Fuuck it.. I'm going out,
with a thought in the back of your head that it might not be the wisest decision you've ever made,
but you still go out.

If someone came up to you right then and said ..." Here, put this on, if you get knocked out it triples your chances of surviving". Would you put it on ...?

Laird wears a vest.




I'd say that if a product like this was available, and it didn't affect an athletes performance, then it should be made mandatory for all organised sporting events like board and boat SLSA comps and it may save lives.

Funnily that the only reason I can think of why clubbies don't wear some sort of minimalist life vest is due to the look / vanity / machismo.
Its a good idea to proceed with because its sole purpose is to bring a son back to his mum, a father back to his family and if it saves just one barmaid, I'll be eternally grateful...

[Linq]

Yeah, I have also been trying to find a paddle in flotation vest. I'm after a vest with foam inserted rather than an inflatable. If anyone has some suggestions of actual products already on the market I would appreciate it.

Over the last few years I broken a number of boards out in surf anywhere from 8 to 15 ft. The swim ins can become pretty hectic at times. At this stage I'm looking at the patagonia padded big wave vest. http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/men ... ?p=88200-0 or some sort o kite boarding vest. Cheers

[pearceD]

Linq,
Something that boaties/clubbies loaf around in: http://www.surfvest.com
Foam inserts basically.

The clubbies are going through a whole process regarding floatation/protective equipment and they have hit a few walls regarding international standards, 'positive buoyancy' while having a product that allows a reasonable amount of movement.

[Linq]

Cheers fro the reply pearceD - had a look a the link. Looks good for surf lifesaving but not sure it will suit my purpose. I want to wear it for large wave paddling in surfing - needs to go over a steamer and sit firmly on body when getting worked by large waves. Can't have it hanging around my head when getting thrashed around under the water. looks like the material is pretty stretchy.

[pearceD]

No worries - agree with the sketchyness.
They got in early and took advantage of the cheap materials.