Thoughts on ZoSea's 'takeover' of the ASP? Nick?

[Clif]

Well, in some cultures and situations children do not have to be taught to share. Yes, visit a playground where children have been brought up under certain conditions and this may be the case, however there are others contexts where children don't have to be taught to share because the culture they are born into has no sense of ownership/individualism to begin with.

I guess my point is that to assume all humans have an innate quality is not to accomodate how some do not exhibit those universal traits. As such, how can they be universal. One cannot extrapolate from one context the situation behaviours for all e.g. checking out a playground in a Western culture can not enable you to know what its like in a place and culture where playgrounds don't even exist and the social conditions that make individualism and egoism foreign. Rather than a repressive/suppressive hypothesis I prefer productive one.

We're beginning from two different paradigms here so this is going to go around in circles and I have to get to the pub to beat my mate at pool and if I love beat him to a bloody pulp.

Cheers, Steve.

[Clif]

Damn, I should check my grammar and punctuation before posting so I can be understood

[steve shearer]

however there are others contexts where children don't have to be taught to share because the culture they are born into has no sense of ownership/individualism to begin with.

You'd have to supply an example there Clif....


And reference a culture/society that hasn't shown competitive/aggressive traits in it's history.
Or one where individualism/egotism is foreign.

That would take it out of paradigms.

[Nick Carroll]

If the ASP/Competitive surfing as a whole went broke... do you think less people would surf??

A ha ha well

a) competitive surfing is a lot bigger and broader then the ASP WCT and its been going on a lot longer too, so I don't reckon competitive surfing would vanish if the WCT busted. Something else would probably spring up to take its place at the sharp end.

b) the WCT is only one contributing factor to the popularity of surfing in Australia and there have been periods of astounding popularity in the sport pre dating the ASP's existence. I think its effect on encouraging people to surf today in Australia is negligible. Surfing is part of the nation's social and cultural fabric and has a deep history supporting its place in people's hearts. Many thousands of Australians have built lives around it in all sorts of ways which have little to do with the ASP, millions go to the beach every summer, and all that has been going on for decades.

We're all part of it in fact. I mean let's face it, would YOU stop surfing because the WCT went bust?

[Karlos]

If the ASP/Competitive surfing as a whole went broke... do you think less people would surf??

I think less kids would take up surfing.
there has to be some factor there, although I would bet my hairy nutsack that not one single skateboarder has ever taken up skateboarding because of competitive skating alone.

I returned to skating after watching some pro skateboarding. Does that count?

Competitive surfing's got nothing to do with it. It's too much fun & the world has caught on to that fact. Besides, it seems to me to be more a case of people taking up mini mals, longboards & SUPS more than shortboards. The WCT would have bugger-all to do with that surely. Come to think about it, I'd love to see some figures on type of craft beginners adopt, not that any would exist.

[purple pyramids]

so where is this pro surfing shown? can't say i ever notice it on the tv guide or come across it when flicking through the channels. doesn't seem to rate a mention in any of the newspapers i peruse.

if it wasn't for the hullaboo around here, i would even know about it. how pervasive and important is it really?

[Nick Carroll]

I crack up when people start theorising about competition.

Don't any of you cnuts listen to yourselves? What goes on in your heads and hearts?

Clif is so competitive he started a fcuken magazine to try to change the surf culture because he wasn't happy with it.

Shearer is so competitive he tries to beat every other reporter at major surf contests to posting after each day's competition.

Humans are competitive, they are also social and co-operative, both traits can co-exist with ease in a typical human, we are far more complex than that rather pissweak contradiction would suggest.

What is more there is no particular moral weight to be given to either state. You can make a moral argument for the value of competition in human affairs as easily as you can make one for co-operation.

Sport gives rise to both. Top surfers compete against each other, for instance, yet they are all together engaged in the same general activity, and require each other's presence in order to make that activity a success. What's more, there is not a top surfer alive or dead who did it by his or her self, all of em require lots of help (ie lots of co operative assistance) in order to achieve their goals.

You can theorise yourself to death over whether it is a learned activity or an instinctive one, but honestly, what the fcuk is the difference? Really? If behaviour crops up as a result of socialisation or as genetic bent, well whoope doo, it is still behaviour. I defy anyone to make sense of the difference, or even detect it.

[steve shearer]

Clif is so competitive he started a fcuken magazine to try to change the surf culture because he wasn't happy with it.

Shearer is so competitive he tries to beat every other reporter at major surf contests to posting after each day's competition.

I bet Lucky Al would be twice as competitive as me and Clif put together.

[Lucky Al]

eh? get fucked steve shearer. there's not a competitive bone in my body nor a competitive hair on my head. lots of hair on my head by the way, meanwhile... YOU'RE BALD!!!

[bc]

a question i have
why is it left too the big three to carry pro surfing
the macquarie bank isnt short a quid and owns fcs ( ) why shouldnt they cough up some coin for a event
wat about cobra and all these asian board builders....there reaping sales...wheres there support
than again....have the big three surf companys kept it all in house
and now there coins tight there bailing
time will tell

The big three were never doing it out of the goodness of their own heart, just for return on investment.
And it worked well for a while, as the huge Quiksilver store in Times Square could attest.
Work out where the money is being spent, and you'll have your next sponsor.

[kreepykrawly]

Had lunch with Mark Warren today at Barrenjoey house, palm beach and this same subject was brought up. We both agreed that the whole thing is one big cluster f-ck shamozal of monolithic proportions.

After washing down the spatchcock saltimbocca with imported beers we ended the meal with a lovely crème brule and sorbet.

We both parted singing the words to waltzing matildas. Non of us farted during the meal.

boo boo moo moo. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. king mafoosa the 3rd

[still here]

Did you boys take the poodle too ?

[kreepykrawly]

Did you boys take the poodle too ?

Nah…Midget F decided to stay @ work and blow blanks.

[Clif]

Don't take it all so seriously, Mr Carroll. Neither of us wrote that both can't co-exist. We were playing around with a discussion with how behaviour comes about. The discussion highlighted the complexity. Sometimes its fun to theorize. Lighten up. BTW that is not why I became involved in the 'baa actually.

[still here]

Did you boys take the poodle too ?

Nah…Midget F decided to stay @ work and blow blanks.

Haha , yeah right .... Let me guess - "fantastic" stayed and helped Midge ? , another of your imaginary friends

[Lucky Al]

we were just trying to give back to surfing and show it to the world weren't we clif, sort of like when kelly made that imax movie for the mid-westerners.

[Nick Carroll]

Don't take it all so seriously, Mr Carroll. Neither of us wrote that both can't co-exist. We were playing around with a discussion with how behaviour comes about. The discussion highlighted the complexity. Sometimes its fun to theorize. Lighten up. BTW that is not why I became involved in the 'baa actually.

So...so now I didn't even add to the complexity. You guys are real JERKS!

[Clif]

You guys are real JERKS!

Yeah ... aggressive and competitive jerks at that!