Whose Life is it anyway

[chrisb]

IMO, Nick a well-written article for the AFR. As far as the book goes I'm not interested in reading the book having already read and enjoyed Doherty's bio of MP. For dramatic fiction with surf references I'll stick with Tim Winton.

Watching a movie is a different proposition given that "The Boys" and "Wolf Creek" for example are fiction based on a real story(ies) that have great dramatic impact.

Didn't anyone else notice the thinly-vieled homage to Australia's greatest pace-bowler, DK (ie. Dennis Keith) Lillee. both characters being of a similar vintage.

[Nick Carroll]

very good chrisb! You win the Elided Reference Award for this thread.

Malcolm is better known for his cricket writing than anything else aside from the Norma Khouri bust.

[crabmeat thompson]

Jesus Carroll.

I got a 5000 word case study due Monday and need to complete a website from scratch in 3 weeks time. I got no hope while you're throwing threads like this out there.

This is a topic really close to me.

I did a lot of work with MP and his mum when I was at surfing life. Met them numerous times and had lunch with them. MP use to share his raspberries with me while we both regarded Joan's cheese sandwiches with the suspicion they deserved.

I need to do a lot of things right now, but at the top of the list is to read this book. If anything is going to give me a feeling of unease, I need to explore this immediately

[steve shearer]

And Braithy was this relationship not cultivated with the express or implicit purpose of soliciting material for publication?

Or did you just happen to strike up a friendship with him, purely platonically?

[crabmeat thompson]

And Braithy was this relationship not cultivated with the express or implicit purpose of soliciting material for publication?

Or did you just happen to strike up a friendship with him, purely platonically?

Glad you asked Steve.

It started out by an idea I had. I had - and still do to this day - a black and white photo of MP doing his famous arms up carve at Dee why that crawford took. I loved that wetsuit.

I was talking to one of the guys high up at rip curl (forget his name, remember his face). I got the curl to make up a special MP wetsuit for our ultimate giveaway issue.

I wandered down to the back of coolie and asked Joan if it was the kind of thing that MP would want to hand the winner of the comp. She said ask him yourself, I did.

From that point I stayed in touch. When the mag came out of MP handing the winner the wetsuit, I took that down to MP and his mum. She is a terrifically lovely woman. She said the door is always open to drop in whenever.

I always made a point of stopping off and buying either a pack or raspberries or those powdered banana lollies before every visit. MP loved them.

I musta had 6 or 8 lunches with Joan and MP over 18 months ... I lost count of the amount of things Joan and MP offered me, but I declined. Signed morning of the earth dvd's, posters, signed this and that. The Curl still buffed MP out with jumpers and trackies and tees, and MP was always offering to sign one for me.

The only thing I ever accepted, and still have as a treasured item for mysel - ie will never sell - is the 77 stubbies classic as shot on hand-cam by MP's mum. The same mob who digitalised morning of the earth for dvd, also made Joan about 10 VHS copies of the stubbies classic.

Not sure where this falls in your label of soliciting material. I did it with an honest heart, and trying do my bit to make sure my favourite surfer of all time was never forgotten for what he did best. Surf.

Doherty's book still doesn't sit well with me. There were some epic omissions, not enough eye witness accounts and all in all it left the readership with nowhere near the insight required to tackle somebody as charismatic as MP.

If I'd written the book it would have been double the length and triple the depth.

... it crossed my mind to write one too, long before it would have been an idea for Tracks and Sean too. But I wasn't prepared to be put in a position of exploitation for the Petersons. So I didn't.

[sean doherty]

... it crossed my mind to write one too, long before it would have been an idea for Tracks and Sean too. But I wasn't prepared to be put in a position of exploitation for the Petersons. So I didn't.

Happily cop to the rest, Chine, but this insinuation sits a little uncomfortably with me. Care to elaborate?

[crabmeat thompson]

... it crossed my mind to write one too, long before it would have been an idea for Tracks and Sean too. But I wasn't prepared to be put in a position of exploitation for the Petersons. So I didn't.

Happily cop to the rest, Chine, but this insinuation sits a little uncomfortably with me. Care to elaborate?

Sure Sean. Do you want to share with us what Michael and Joan received from Harpers or yourself for their time & story? I see the Petersons as vulnerable. Joan is worn out, and Michael is fragile. I don't really begrudge you for doing it. I'm just saying I couldn't/ wouldn't do that.

My old man grew up close to this story, went to Miami high with Drouyn as a foundation student ... He was part of the older Burleigh crew who had heaps of run ins in the water with the younger Rabs & MP etc ... Your retelling of the story left out some pivotal bits of MP's surfing life, but they're probably not conducive to selling copies like MP's drug use, mental health and combative demeanour due to his illness?

Maybe I'm being too cynical ... I accept that's a possibility and I fully expect you to set me straight if I am being too harsh. I can handle that.

[Quangers]

... it crossed my mind to write one too, long before it would have been an idea for Tracks and Sean too. But I wasn't prepared to be put in a position of exploitation for the Petersons. So I didn't.

Happily cop to the rest, Chine, but this insinuation sits a little uncomfortably with me. Care to elaborate?

Sure Sean. Do you want to share with us what Michael and Joan received from Harpers or yourself for their time & story? I see the Petersons as vulnerable. Joan is worn out, and Michael is fragile. I don't really begrudge you for doing it. I'm just saying I couldn't/ wouldn't do that.

My old man grew up close to this story, went to Miami high with Drouyn as a foundation student ... He was part of the older Burleigh crew who had heaps of run ins in the water with the younger Rabs & MP etc ... Your retelling of the story left out some pivotal bits of MP's surfing life, but they're probably not conducive to selling copies like MP's drug use, mental health and combative demeanour due to his illness?

Maybe I'm being too cynical ... I accept that's a possibility and I fully expect you to set me straight if I am being too harsh. I can handle that.

I disagree about leaving bits out... although I wouldn't say the same about the occy bio - piece of polished, ball sucking, pampering, truth witholding shiitte.
Talk about all holds barred.

[Grooter]

Carry on gents, this is getting rather interesting

[dUg]

[Beanpole]

But so what if he wrote a novel which was a thinly veiled piece of historical fiction.

Thats been a writer/filmakers stock in trade since Day Dot.
Citizen Kane being a classic example.

Whats the big deal?

It's not like the life of MP is some secret.

A lot of the defenders of the faith here would do themselves a favor if they took the time to read the book before agreeing with the assumption that Knox is a hodad. I kind of thought through a lot of those things mentioned when I read the book but one thing that I thought would annoy MP is that he features as bit player in the contest scene and got thrashed by DK. No way would he have taken back stage. Aren't novels supposed to be controversial?

[nosedrip]

Finished reading The Life last night. Billiant piece of literature. I'm with Beanpole. Anyone who is critical of the author / piece of work without actually having read the book knows nothing and should shut the f*** up until they have. Sure - the story matches many aspects of MPs life - but it's how it is told that should be celebrated. Pick it up when you're next in a bookstore - open any page and read it. Then you'll get a taste of what you're missing. And my money's on the fact that if you actually read the book you will spend more time thinking about how it's written than all this mindless hand wringing that is going on about exploitation.

[localbogan]

Interesting comments from the main protagonists here in regards to expressing surprise at Malcolm Knox's book.
A couple of years ago I submitted an idea for a new competition to the ASP.
The only other person to see it was Nick Carroll.
About 6 months later, the ASP announce a new competition format, credited to Pritamo Ahrendt.
At the same time, Sean Doherty conducts an interview with Pritamo for the Surfing World website. The idea accredited to Pritamo has conceptual similarities to my idea and he appears to paraphrase parts of my original submission in his response to Sean's questions.
I contact Sean and point these similarities out to him...and get no response.
His editor at SW, Vaughan Blakey, confirms in writing that Sean has received my emails.
So despite some reasonable evidence that Pritamo may have borrowed very heavily from my original concept, Sean chooses to totally ignore it and not even put a single word as a reply.
So I do not think Sean is in any sort of a position to complain if Malcolm Knox has borrowed the facts out of his Michael Peterson book and used them as a basis for his own

[oldman]

In order of priority:

Nick, really excellent writing. It's not as though I have followed your career or anything but your 'voice' is authentic, and that is all that matters. That is as much smoke as I am willing to blow up Nick's arse.

Two - it's fiction, there are no rules, get over yourselves.

What's the difference between fiction that closely follows actual events, fiction that is loosely based on real life, and fiction that is apparently totally creatively new?

First Answer: - Only a wanker knows.

Second answer - the first two are real and the third only exists in the mind of the author who has deluded himself into thinking he has created something completely original.

I will make a nominal exception for the very best of genuine sci-fi writing.

Similarities with MP? Well, one who cares, two, if you think that makes Knox a hodad you might just be living under some very strange delusions, I recommend you give up reading.

Similarities with MP? Well, I reckon if I personally asked MP about what actually went on in his life and what didn't, he wouldn't be able to tell me. Be damned if I am going to care about it ruffling the feathers of people who spent some period of their lives with him, and you'd be a crazy to take other people's stories about MP with anything other than a grain of salt.

This book may not have been written for old surfers. I'm not saying that if you feel somehow a bit 'icky' you must be a wanker. What I am saying is that if you do feel a bit icky, your best investment of time would be working out why you have such 'retentive' feelings rather than trying to work out whether it is reasonable to base a book on someone else's life while still calling it fiction.

And last but not least, it doesn't matter. Knox wrote something, people felt something. Mission accomplished.


Warning, this has been written while half cut.

[Davros]

What about if Tim Winton had written this instead of a cricket geek who has had a couple of years of weekend mini mal experience. Is that the real issue?

[Buff_Brad]

What about if Tim Winton had written this instead of a cricket geek who has had a couple of years of weekend mini mal experience. Is that the real issue?

No , firstly Tim Winton can't surf (well , well and would probably be the first to admit it) and secondly would probably have added some form of credit to the said MP.

Sure write about what you want but if you want to totally copy someone's life do so in a "cool" way.

That my 20 cents worth fcukers.

[ajohnsen]

I have no problem with using a true story as a point from which to jump off - a story has to jump from somewhere - but it should be just that. To use as many of the undisputed facts of MP's life, as Nick lists them, is indicative of lazy writing - no matter how good the yarn is.

I'm a screenwriter and I've used my own life on one occasion as a springboard. Beyond one fact (my mother died when I was 18) the story bears no resemblance to my life story, or any of the people in it. I would be ashamed of myself as a writer to simply use what is, and not use it as an inspirational opportunity to find out what if, and to then keep pushing deeper. If you don't do that, can you ever really claim that the story you have written is your own? That the characters you have created are your own? Not for me. I think I'd always feel a little dirty, in need of a shower and a fresh set of clothes.

[steve shearer]

Sheesuz AJ.......most of the truly great literature is at least semi auto-biographical.
And most of the really great stuff is openly auto-biographical.

As Louis Armstrong said: if you haven't lived it as life, you can't blow it through the horn.

Thats part of the writers pact.

Have a listen to this lecture from Somerset Maugham (can we accept him as a great writer?).
He lays it out fairly clearly.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/replay/stories ... 279394.htm