Surf Etiquette in the Line-up

[bumfluff]

IMO the biggest problem is a sheer lack of comunication, often with surfers who think they are too good to talk to a kook. Or because the locals don't want to make friends with any kooks or be hospitible because they might come back and take even more waves. Too often instead of an explaination as to what the kook did wrong, the kook gets snake eyes from a number of people in the line up or is told to f*ck off (or punched in the head). But this is a double edged sword.

This creates a hostile situation and gives the kook even less of a chance to learn and deters him/her even more from asking experienced surfers anything in the line up in the future. Or he never comes back so I guess in a way it worked, but he'll probably just go to another break and it becomes their problem.

So his next session, he goes out and does exactly the same thing not realising he's doing anything wrong, but this time he already resents the line-up and couldn't give a toss about the locals or what they have to say even more...and the locals hate the kook because they see him coming and know he's gonna drop in on everyone or do stupid things.

Rinse, repeat...

[gibber]

Yes it's too late.
Yes kooks aren't going to read this thread and have an epiphany
Yes it's been said and done before in as much as stressing monuments on beaches

But that is missing my point.
I know things have changed.
Kooks are not the target audience here.
Yes messr's Conneally and Young have evoked these rules in the past and monuments and rules have been posted on beaches.
My point is to take it to a different level. Tell the perpetrator what they are doing wrong at the time they have committed the crime.
This is what needs to happen and I don't really care if anyone else takes this up or not. I am, and I will. It's the only way ( in my opinion) to be proactive in instigating a change.
You don't have to do if feel uncomfortable about it. I know that a few have understood my thoughts and are going to do there bit in bringing about a change. That's all I can hope for
A small step forward in education will swell over time.

[Trev]

Agreed gibber and just to add something else.
We do have a reasonable number of "guests" on here from time to time. Who knows how many of them might learn something.
Which is why it's worth revisiting from time to time.

[pridmore]

humans need to show more consideration for others in general IMHO
Dads need to teach their kids good habits in the surf...I see many who teach them the opposite
I agree to a cetain point alakaboo but education has to come from all and any place I think coz as the surfing population increases and our surfing spots become more and more crowded, we could be in for some really bad times ahead and anyone who learns the ( or any ) basic surf rules, just may pass it onto his mate, or kids, so it all helps I think....
but it is a shittey subject, and a thread thats been done to death but a major issue for surfing in populated areas now and even moreso in the future, what conditions and idiots will our kids have to deal with.....
My son gets a serve from me if he drops in and he sees me very very rarely drop in, he also sees me tell beginners what they did wrong of they blatantly drop in on me or him...I am much better than I used to be, it disgusts me what I did as a angry 17 yr old grom...guess we all learn and grow up

[kayu]

With my new skill i'll be cutting stone tablets and chiselling into them the rules of'th thy surfer, i will be appearing at a break near you in April 2012 as Moses Gibber withest thou 10 commandments of surfing

Too late gibber. It's already been done by one Robert Connelley and attempted by one Robert Young. Makes for pretty beach monuments. 'Real' surfers know the rules. Erecting a monument on every headland is a deadset waste of time and effort.

I had it said to me many years ago, that one of the best ways to alleviate chronic crowded situations, was to eliminate leg ropes. I pooh-ard the suggestion at the time, but the more I though about it, the more it makes sense. Particularly in bigger or gnarlier waves. It's too late for Byron, Lennox and much of the Goldy. Population combined with transient numbers means that these joints will always be chocka.... But line-ups would be considerably skinnier if "would-be-if-they-could-be" surfers had to use skill to maintain position in the line-up.

Sure, there would be loose boards. Even the "guns" fall off. But there's more to surfing skills than just standing and turning. Swimming to retrieve lost boards is a skill in itself. It can be difficult, or it can be easy. And those with the skills, will do it easily and be totally unfazed. Those that struggle, will spend less time in the line-up, and more time in the water. Or on the beach.

Of course this will never happen. It's a bit like telling every bastard that all forms of transport apart from walking, running or swimming are now banned. Simply ain't going to occur. But eliminating the old goon chord would de-kook the line-up like you wouldn't believe....

Got fond memories of pre-legrope days....seems most surfers these days have lost the "art" of body surfing

[clackertyjack]

Put this suggestion in the never gonna happen file .
What if the companys that have sold surfing down the drain in their quest for more dollars
just put a simple message on every item they sell explaining surf ettiquite ,
what if the mags spared 1/2 a page each issue reminding people of surf manners
and even better what if everyone behaved like i say not like i do ?

[alakaboo]

Clackertyjack, you are wise beyond your posts..
I'd love to see that, was thinking about it this arvo actually.
What I would also like to see is an ad campaign that says something simple and catchy like "If you can't swim in, don't paddle out".
Even though it'll probably make as much difference as this thread...

As I pointed out in my first post, I agree with the sentiment. If you weren't already speaking up, and this thread motivates you to do so, then more power to the internet. And Gibber.

Tell the perpetrator what they are doing wrong at the time they have committed the crime.

Bumfluff wrote about this too, and I do it myself.
But half the time I say something like
"Mate, the reason why you can't get back out is because you are paddling straight over the shallowest part of the bank, head sideways to get into the rip"
I normally just get "Huh, what's a rip?" or "I know what I'm doing, piss off".
I'm not going to take the time to explain coastal geomorphology to every person at the beach.

[alakaboo]

If there are not too many out and there seems to be a rotating system of people taking it in turns, try to fit in and take your place at the end of the line and you will be included

I'm respectful in the water wherever I go, even my own local, but the notion that people form an orderly line and are allowed to pick off a set wave when their turn comes around is just BS.
I can count on one hand the number of times I've had a local who was in as good a position as me to take a wave has said "Yours mate, you've been waiting a while".
Or "Your last one kind of went fat on you, why don't you take this one".
Just doesn't happen. A myth, a fallacy.
At least in Australia. Happened at least once a week when I lived in California, and it happened regularly in Indo.

Face it, I don't think anyone has mentioned safety concerns, we're all just greedy pricks who want more waves to ourselves.

[Beanpole]

Too true. Don't be a pig and share waves. If you know what your doing there is no excuse.

[Animal_Chin]

I just want a waterproof Taser.

[brendo]

whos punchin fins out headlander? curtis, old cliffy , walshy, kenno :lol

[jimmy]

whos punchin fins out headlander? curtis, old cliffy , walshy, kenno :lol

Who ever they are Brendo they should be shot. No one has the right to to damage another persons surfboard and I don't care if your name is old cliffy or kenno .

What a bunch of tools.

[happyripper]

The only problem I see in the surf is old farts too slow and unfit to compete for waves anymore. So they look around see all thee young blokes getting em all and get the shits. Time to take up golf you whinney old farts.

[booradley]

humans need to show more consideration for others in general IMHO
Dads need to teach their kids good habits in the surf...I see many who teach them the opposite
I agree to a cetain point alakaboo but education has to come from all and any place I think coz as the surfing population increases and our surfing spots become more and more crowded, we could be in for some really bad times ahead and anyone who learns the ( or any ) basic surf rules, just may pass it onto his mate, or kids, so it all helps I think....
but it is a shittey subject, and a thread thats been done to death but a major issue for surfing in populated areas now and even moreso in the future, what conditions and idiots will our kids have to deal with.....
My son gets a serve from me if he drops in and he sees me very very rarely drop in, he also sees me tell beginners what they did wrong of they blatantly drop in on me or him...I am much better than I used to be, it disgusts me what I did as a angry 17 yr old grom...guess we all learn and grow up

THIS is the point! People are greedy. Kooks are a tiny part of the problem, especially at places like Snapper. Sure, they get in the way but its the fact that 3/4 of the pack can actually surf pretty well out there that makes it a powderkeg and the fact that those at the apex are hardly setting a good example. The sight of Parko or Dingo or any number of sponsored surfers dropping in on capable surfers despite the fact they indirectly pay their wage is infuriating. I'm sure we've all had surfs out there where you're lucky to jag even a handful in a few hours. Meanwhile greedy pricks are happy to get double that and then have the hide to drop-in! I watched a bloke grab two fantastic sets in short time (all by dumb luck I might add). After kicking out of the second, he then casually swung around to grab an inside grower directly in front of a long-waiting punter. He quickly paddled, pushed a chandelier down and wasted the other bloke. Rather than be thankful for the other two waves , he wanted more!
Change that attitude and things will improve ten-fold

[brendo]

whos punchin fins out headlander? curtis, old cliffy , walshy, kenno :lol

Who ever they are Brendo they should be shot. No one has the right to to damage another persons surfboard and I don't care if your name is old cliffy or kenno .

What a bunch of tools.

what happens is that the morning surf is mostly locals, then mid morning all the goldie wannabes rock up in groups,paddle out and try to take over the lineup by safety in numbers. for an unlucky few, there are locals on the north coast that dont take that shit. were not talkin a drop in here and there, its complete arroganance, with blatant snaking/dropins working over the groms etc. they usually get told straight to the point what will happen, then when they continue to do it, and they do, cause they are soooo farken reeeeeping maaaate, they just get a smack in the head.
aint that right headlander?

[Headlander]

Geeze happyripper or is it nappy ripper,I guess you have never grown up with a respect your elders attitude, better hope you don't get old and want to surf too as you may find you won't be so "happy" anymore.

As far as the fins being knocked out, let me just say I'd sooner have my fins punched out than my head punched in by the perpertraitor in question.
I don't like violence either but I've seen times when the person on the receiving end did more than enough to justify a smack in the head and be put in place, as most of us have.

If by trying to educate people in the surf, or on the internet for that matter, about etiquette can help to avoid violence then I think it's a job well done. It's not really the kooks that are the worst IMHO it is more people that should know better and usually have a reasonable ability level that push it in the lineup especially at more high performance breaks. If it is pointed out to them,some do make an effort to curb their behaviour and others just try to be pricks(usually from nth of the border)unless the rest in the lineup have a go at them too. While others there is just no answer for.
Crowds and greed are what I see as the real spoilers in a happy line up and if we can all just be a little less greedy then most spots can handle the crowds a bit better. Once it becomes overcrowded then all bets are off and the lineup becomes a sh*t fight with survival of the fittest the usual outcome and for that there is no answer besides avoiding the break unless you can mix it with rest of them.
Off to golf now with the rest of the wingeing old farts, nappyripper.

[marcus]

Heres another couple for the etiquette list.
If someone is sitting waiting for a wave and you want to go futher out or inside him, paddle around the outside of them not the inside and when you get there wait your fcuken turn or expect to be dropped in on or abused!

if i do that, ill say, hey mate, im paddling deep but im not snaking, and theyll say no worries mate.
i don't think ive ever had someone react with negativity to that.
then i make sure i am not on the next wave that they want, unless they call me into it, even then ill usually say sure you don't want it?

[happyripper]

wow your original headjobber. Yeah well when Im old I plan to be fit enough to mix it with the rest of the crew. Not be a slow old has been that has to resort to violence or get a fat talking about the local tuff guys getting violent with a few kooks. Is that you headjobber, do you like to watch?