Andy Irons Dies

[oldman]

And as much as I hate to say it Steve Shearer wrote a pretty good post on here a little while ago which basically said that the only possible good thing that comes from his death is that lessons are learnt and it doesn't happen again.

I can't fault the motive, it's nice that people want to learn the lessons.

But it begs the question - what f#%cking lessons?

20 pages and we ain't within a bulls roar of finding any remote agreement on even the most fundamental 'lesson' that we can take from this.

And when things are that ambiguous, perhaps the lesson is that there is no lesson to be learnt.

[oldman]

The only drugs that would help a surfer would be similar drugs that help the Tour de France guys ie for endurance.........but with the jet ski assist even they would be pretty superfluous now IMO.

Brad has a much broader range of experience in the spectrum of drugs than I.

Thanks Brad for saying succinctly what I couldn't manage.

[scod]

If you were anxious before an event wouldnt there be some drug that would help take that anxiety away and help you focus ?

[oldman]

The reason why the ASP don't have a testing program is because all of the internationally recognised programs include testing for things like cocaine, amphetamines, ecstasy, marijuana etc and the ASP know that this would decimate their tour.

Decimate, as in one out of every 10 surfers would be wiped out?

Sorry,one more.

Why do WADA and all the sporting organisations that have to follow their policy interested in testing for recreational drugs that have no performance enhancing benefits.

Marijuana, FFS????

They have conflated their roles with the morality police, and consequently have forfeited whatever moral authority they may have gained in their quest to create an 'even playing field.'

[kreepykrawly]

If I was the King of Australia I would make everyone take drugs or be beheaded.
The choice is yours >>> Get wasted or get chopped.

That way no one can get judged (especially by those who have had either perfect upbringings or were born with anatomically perfect functioning brains).

[oldman]

If you were anxious before an event wouldnt there be some drug that would help take that anxiety away and help you focus ?

Although many people don't recognise it, anxiety has a very powerful effect of helping you focus! At some point it can become debilitating.

Some point.

[scod]

If you were anxious before an event wouldnt there be some drug that would help take that anxiety away and help you focus ?

Although many people don't recognise it, anxiety has a very powerful effect of helping you focus! At some point it can become debilitating.

Some point.

I'm usually anxious if the surf is over 2 ft.

What about the anxiety that the pressure to perform might bring, I don't mean during the evnt, I guess adrenaline steers the ship then, I mean when they aren't competing and trying to relax and take their mind off things.

[Skipper]

Well researched there Tom. Top of the class for you today.
And important to note that drugs for treating Bipolar and depression are generally contraindicative...............

You too skip.

The general rule of the forums is if you find yourself agreeing with TMC, you probably should think again.

Rules are there to be broken at times.
Credit where credit due. His 'point', and made quicker than I had a chance to, was to refute your view that depression/bipolar drugs are performance enhancing. Definately the opposite.
What other point was missed?
I'll stick by my view that coke/speed combo is, in select indviduals, performance enhancing.
Whatever cyclists use, so be it. But their needs to enhance their performance are different to a surfer. Different sets of muscles used for a start. Endurance in surfing I'd consider way less paramount than for a cyclist. Natural levels of fitness in a pro surfer would cover that.
Senses, timing and balance in critical positions I'd say are as crucial, if not more so. Hence my view that the coke/speed use would highten these.
Granted, it's all debatable.

[scod]

I think you need to look beyond just the heats - look at the training etc.

Apparently the footballers chug red bull et al befor a game, probably not necessary for surfing, the guys are so fit they are all paddle monsters anyhoo

Some recommendations would be helpful

[Skipper]

If I was the King of Australia I would make everyone take drugs or be beheaded.
The choice is yours >>> Get wasted or get chopped.

That way no one can get judged (especially by those who have had either perfect upbringings or were born with anatomically perfect functioning brains).

amen brother.
Reality is for those who can't handle drugs. :?

[kreepykrawly]

How can you possibly believe in ‘freewill’ if you are born with certain dispositions that prevent you from living a wholesome life?

Determinism allows us to believe in an ‘all powerful’ God((both omniscient and omnipotent) .....not one that plays games with us.

[Skipper]

I think you need to look beyond just the heats - look at the training etc.

Apparently the footballers chug red bull et al befor a game, probably not necessary for surfing, the guys are so fit they are all paddle monsters anyhoo

Some recommendations would be helpful

Redbull's for boofheads who can't say 'due macchiato'

[kreepykrawly]

I can never understand the thought processes in so called ‘developed' countries whereby it is legal to for business to sell you a product that has been proven(beyond reasonable doubt) to kill you or a substance such as alcohol that changes your state of mind in such a way, that will turn you, with the click of a police siren button, into a criminal.

[scod]

its evolution baby !!!

durries and grog been accepted by society for ever, its a way of life.

[localbogan]

Oldman, to answer your points, firstly some lessons have probably already been learned about the death of Andy Irons. Namely, if you have someone with diagnosed bipolar disorder who is a known substance abuser you do not let them out of your sight if they are behaving erratically.
Another lesson that could be learnt is how to manage the whole problem better from the start. ie take it out the hands of a few well intentioned mates and/or the image conscious employer and put it into the hands of the parent body who cannot be manipulated and who has no secondary agenda involving marketing and profit.
As far as drug testing goes, I can give you a more detailed answer if you want to PM me but basically a lot of substances are used to enhance performance, some of which may not appear obvious. ie ventolin. The WADA policies simply cover a whole host of substances in a blanket approach. The inclusion of marijuana is probably the most contentious but other substances predominantly used for recreational purposes have also been used to enhance performance ie cocaine and amphetamines.
As far as the number of surfers who use substances on the banned list, I am willing to bet it is way higher than 1 in 10.
Imagine what would happen if tomorrow the ASP took hair samples testing for cocaine (which samples for use in the last 3 months) from every surfer on the WCT?
Not too many entrants into the next comp I am guessing.

[Buff_Brad]

I watched The Tudors the other night and I saw people being beheaded. You know...Axe comes down, blood squirts out neck attached to still squirming body and covers overexcited people sitting in front row seats

.... and then it occurred to me ......out of the blue......

I had in fact, experienced what I have recently discovered to be an epiphany.

I know this for a fact because my wife saw me staring into space with foam coming out my mouth.

As she approached me with the usual caution ...I turned to her and asked “Why can’t we re-introduce ‘axing’s ?.... there are heaps of people out there that require ‘axing’”

“Take this bloke called Buffed Brad on this website called Realsurf, for example...he needs to be axed !!!”

She said “don’t be ridiculous...she has feeling too”

“I know I” I replied “but he needs purging !!!”

BTW ‘Purging’ not as in 'enemas' >>>>> what the bloke regularly requires to sustain his afterhours lifestyle.

Welcome back,

from rehab,

Fcuknuckle.

Lots of love,

Buff_Brad. xx

[oldman]

As far as the number of surfers who use substances on the banned list, I am willing to bet it is way higher than 1 in 10.

So would I, hence my questioning of your use of the word 'decimate'.

Just being cheeky.

Rather than try to refute the obviously well made points of yourself and others re physiological aspects of drug taking, my original point was this, and I stand by it;

- if you have two or 3 obviously fit athletes engaging in such a whole of being sport as surfing, do you really think a bit of extra energy is actually gonna make the difference?

Especially where tactics, flow, balance, awareness, co-ordination and reading of the ocean are likely to be much much much greater determinants of heat events than energy levels?

Where contestants are towed out the back, thus virtually eliminating fitness and energy levels as a vital component?

And your telling me that speed or coke is going to improve your surfing ability as a pro?

Are there really drugs that improve your balance? Really?

Drugs for bipolar - performance enhancing? Depends - how good do you surf when you are so low that you can't even get out of bed, as opposed to feeling bloated, tired, etc but still able to paddle out. The guy who paddles out is going to be a better chance of being out there. That has got to enhance his chances of winning, even if he feels shite.

The term 'performance enhancing' is dependent in initial conditions, which are assumed, but cannot be. There is a lot more grey in it then people are suggesting.

[oldman]

Namely, if you have someone with diagnosed bipolar disorder who is a known substance abuser you do not let them out of your sight if they are behaving erratically.

Let's leave aside the question of how one is supposed to keep an eye on an erratically behaving adult?

You know, and this is the crux of my entire argument, he had a wife, a pregnant wife at that, a brother who was often on the circuit with him and undoubtedly a good man, I think a living mother and a father, a significant number of very close friends, and all of them deeply emotionally invested in his good health as we all are with our loved ones.

And people on here are arguing that if only some journo had written a forthright story on all the demons he carried, then the weight of due care from all these people who had only his business or professional interests at heart, would have made all the difference and he would be alive today.

It's such an insult to his friends and family, it implies that they just sat around farting about, ineffectual, but by god, if only super-journo was there to save the day, all would be well with the world.

It is such a long long bow, an entirely human bow to try and pull, but it is laughable.

You are assigning some divine gifts of life to the unknown super-journo, and by extension the CEO of the org that sponsored him and the directors of the ASP. Oh if only they had, uhhmmmm, what? Locked him up? Insisted he go to rehab. You know I'm sure the family never thought of that.

It's so naive. It is cripplingly, laughably, pathetically, sweetly but obstinately naive.

Cheers all, hope you are all looking after yourselves and your loved ones, as best you can.