Australia vs. USA Culture

[oldman]

don't anybody say anything about their cheese or its on again.

Complete and utter BS.

This kind of kowtowing cultural cringe just reveals an ignorance of Aus reality.

Absolutely agree. Fact is that you can't see your own culture, it has to be pointed out to you by someone outside your own culture to know it. We dismiss everything that is great about our world as though they are lame-arse achievements.

Cultural cringe is part of our past culture, some of us rid ourselves of that debilitating idea.

name one family tradition that has been passed down to you, that you will in turn pass onto your kids.

Respect others for what they achieve and who they are (the content of their character) rather than because they were born into a wealthier, or poorer family than you.

A sense of civil disobedience, in the sense of ignoring gratuitous and petty laws by flouting them as regularly as possible.

The self respect to ignore the bleatings and the bitching of the privileged class.

Respecting authority only where that authority is personally won or is used wisely and effectively, otherwise respect is withdrawn.

A sense of classlessness, even if we are divided by class. Regardless of your background, it is really only the most desperately unhinged of Australians who judge people according to their family history and background. Exceptions are rare.

A love for the underdog, room to allow for the eccentrics.

What you see as no culture braithy, through my eyes looks like freedom. We are more free than any other nation in that respect. If you want to describe that as being free from culture, well I will disagree on that point.

Others have pointed out that cultures such as Japan, china, and not mentioned but probably worst of all, the jewish culture, basically assign you a second class status if you are not born into them. I see that as the pointy end of pretty much everything that is evil about human beings, and yet it defines those cultures.

Maybe culture is something to be eschewed rather than embraced.

Apart from all that, Australians are among the most inventive people on the planet. Is that culture, I don't know, but it's true.

And as for copying america, gawd help us, not even worth comment.

[Trev]

oldman, I commend you on that post. You managed to incorporate just about everything that occurred to me as I was reading this thread - and then some.
I love this country and have travelled fairly widely (but not as much as others in seriously underdeveloped countries) and pretty well evrywhere I go people express a liking for Australia and Australians.
Sure we have problems, as does everyone.
But as for Americans seeing Australians as racist that has to be the most hypocritical attitude I've ever come across. Yes, many of them do have that attitude, but as was said above, the Americans' lack of knowledge of anything other than their own country falls far short of acceptable and their knowledge of their own country is probably just as bad.

[channels]

Oh boy. The Cronulla race riots probably epitomise everything wrong with this new dynamic society you speak of. imo ... We, Australia, are rapidly evolving alright. Rapidly evolving into a bunch of whiny, self serving racists with little idea of respect for anything or anyone.

At the start of the year I was in the states on a baseball tour. There are strong notions among the Americans I talked with, that Australia is a racist, backward country. I could argue the backwards bit, and I did quite successfully. But the racist bit. I had no answer for.

Hmmm...

So a couple of thousand numbnuts go stupid and racist in Cronulla and you tar the other 20 million of us with the same brush...nice one!

And as for the Americans you spoke to, were they part of the 20% of the American population that actually own a passport and have actually seen the world or one of the 80% who get their views and opinions straight from Fox News and The O'Reilly Factor?

[crabmeat thompson]

The Cronulla race riots probably epitomise everything wrong with this new dynamic society you speak of. imo ...

how the f#$k did you take what I wrote, and link it to support for race riots? or racism of any kind?
the riots, as far as i understand, were in fact the complete opposite of what i suggested. generated out of some twisted desire to maintain a tainted cultural status quo, and driven by alcohol-fuelled insensitivity and stupidity.

I didn't take your post and link it to racism. Sorry if you took it that way and got - rightfully - offended.

When I hear catch words of new rapidly evolving dynamic society and multiculturalism and have it linked to Australia I think its a fallacy.

I'm married to a Hawaiian Thai woman, so I see racism almost every single day. Whether it's the deli woman at bi lo who serves all around Ann, and then just throws her food over the counter at her. Or if its the checkout woman who serves the people in front of her with a big smile and lots of conversation, sees Ann, drops her head and acts all jilted she's gotta serve someone of Ann's appearance. Or if its blatant P plate fcukwits who might drive past and yell at her.

Racism is rife here. It is what it is. We, Australians, don't like people who are different. I accept it, I live here ... I don't agree with it, imo racism is about the worst thing in this world ...

This forum board is a microcosm of Australian society. Start a thread and say you believe in god and watch 5 kinds of shit hit everything. irl, wear a burka and walk down the Cross on a friday night, or be an Indian and walk across a P crossing in Brisbane on any saturday arvo and watch the shit fly.

There's nothing multicultural or dynamic about the majority of Australians I encounter. Take a drive to Alice springs and drive through Queensland to get there ... You'll see what i mean.

[crabmeat thompson]

So a couple of thousand numbnuts go stupid and racist in Cronulla and you tar the other 20 million of us with the same brush...nice one!

Read my reply to alakaboo ... Yes. it was a generalisation, but there is far less than 20 million who might have your views.

And as for the Americans you spoke to, were they part of the 20% of the American population that actually own a passport and have actually seen the world or one of the 80% who get their views and opinions straight from Fox News and The O'Reilly Factor?

Mostly college kids, some teachers and coaches too. We were on a baseball tour, played in Florida, Arizona and Texas. Most of the guys were early 20's late teens, educated and some were well travelled, some weren't.

There was a bunch of Australian racisim stuff coming through the media at the time with the way Indians and Pakistanis were getting treated in melbourne. And of course they all got on Fox News not to go to Australia as we are racist in response to the 'Nulla riots. It was the opening story for about 2-3 days there.

[channels]

I guess what I do take out of your agument, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, is that Australia is more racist than other places?

I'm doing some work in Hong Kong & China at the moment and I'm regularly called a gweilo, Japan is very similar, France gets that way, heck you might have even seen signs of it in your tour of Arizona and Texas.

Braithy - ever used the term whinging pom or refer to a Kiwi as a sheep shagger?

[Trev]

Braithy I'm guessing you are young enough not to have lived through the influx of Greeks and Italians after WW2. I grew up with a few of the kids of that influx. I also worked through the Vietnamese boat people era. Racism is perhaps the politically expedient way of describing what went on then and continues to this day with successive waves of newcomers.
The fact that the Italians and Greeks of the 50's are pretty much an accepted part of our society today, and to a slightly lesser extent, the Vietnamese, would indicate to me that our society IS evolving dynamically.
In the working world you'll find pretty well every nationality and, generally in my experience they get along.
Yes there is intolerance but I don't think a lot of it is "racism" rather a fear of the unknown, which often grows out of poor education, poor parental guidance, a fear of going against your peers, and a general malaise which has been propogated by the bad press received whenever someone from an identifiable ethnic/ religious group goes overboard.
And yes, it's worse in Qld and the Centre because they have less experience with the wide variety of cultures you see in Sydney and Melbourne (in particular).
But in a "dynamic" culture, the interaction will gradually widen.

It's certainly a work in progress and IMO the best we can do is try to be a positive influence on those around us (as I'm sure you are doing) and let the seeds of tolerance and acceptance take root and grow.

[crabmeat thompson]

That is a great point. Some of the things I typed about are very geographically relevant.

Camooweal is a long way from Flinders st. Both in distance and racial tolerance.

It's funny you mention the Italians and Greeks. Being adopted I only found out in the last decade my biological roots are from the Italians you speak of.

[crabmeat thompson]

I guess what I do take out of your agument, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, is that Australia is more racist than other places?

I'm doing some work in Hong Kong & China at the moment and I'm regularly called a gweilo, Japan is very similar, France gets that way, heck you might have even seen signs of it in your tour of Arizona and Texas.

Braithy - ever used the term whinging pom or refer to a Kiwi as a sheep shagger?

Colloquialism. I have used it and still do. Calling a kiwi a sheep shagger is 11 degrees of separation, imo, from calling an Indian a towel headed piece of shit, and telling them to go home or get fcuk out of 'my' country.

Have you not ever heard people get treated like that in Australia?

[channels]

I guess what I do take out of your agument, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, is that Australia is more racist than other places?

I'm doing some work in Hong Kong & China at the moment and I'm regularly called a gweilo, Japan is very similar, France gets that way, heck you might have even seen signs of it in your tour of Arizona and Texas.

Braithy - ever used the term whinging pom or refer to a Kiwi as a sheep shagger?

Colloquialism. I have used it and still do. Calling a kiwi a sheep shagger is 11 degrees of separation, imo, from calling an Indian a towel headed piece of shit, and telling them to go home or get fcuk out of 'my' country.

Have you not ever heard people get treated like that in Australia?

Absolutely, I know it happens, I've seen it happen and I'm embarrassed to be classed as a citizen of the same country as those who perform those acts.

My point before, although I must admit that as I'm not a writer by profession and I'm not often as elegant in writing as others, is that it's a fine line and what can be seen as colloquialism or humour to some can be seen as racist to others or especially those it's directed at.

My other point is that other places in the world are just as bad if not worse than Australia.. a ton of examples I can provide if you like.

[crabmeat thompson]

My point before, although I must admit that as I'm not a writer by profession and I'm not often as elegant in writing as others, is that it's a fine line and what can be seen as colloquialism or humour to some can be seen as racist to others or especially those it's directed at.

My other point is that other places in the world are just as bad if not worse than Australia.. a ton of examples I can provide if you like.

No need to. We are on the same the page.

Absolutely, I know it happens, I've seen it happen and I'm embarrassed to be classed as a citizen of the same country as those who perform those acts.

I couldn't have encapsulated my feelings any better than that. And it is these examples accompanied by our frivolous piss drinking pastime where we become cnuts which, for me, hamper any serious conversation about Australia having a credible culture.

[oldman]

Just on the racism thing, I'm not claiming that Australians aren't racist, I'm just saying that you can't say that Australians are racists.

Fact is, we aren't, as a nation. You can't say that a country is racist. You can however apply that to a culture, where the very depths of that culture demand that you look upon others as being of lesser value. A number of cultures thrive on that distinction, and we don't, it is not our point of difference. We are a strangely welcoming hugely affectionate people.

And then there are the checkout chicks! You can't judge a country by its checkout chicks. Racism is also mightily conected with education, and that is a constant in pretty much every country.

I have seen it wherever I have travelled. Have yet to come across any country that doesn't have exactly the same problems with racism that we have, in almost identical proportions. Have read lots, and its the same ugly beast in every place.

No country can point the finger at Australia without accusing itself of the same crime.

So americans claiming OZ as racist, FMD. Yes, we harbour racist citizens, and so do you.

[Skipper]

Wenn ich Kultur höre ... entsichere ich meinen Browning!"

[crabmeat thompson]

name one family tradition that has been passed down to you, that you will in turn pass onto your kids.

You are taking the piss, aren't you Braithy? Because if you aren't, god (coll.) help your children, for you must have no respect, moral values or standards of your own to pass to them.

A family tradition is not a moral, value or respect.

I was referring to how the Hawaiians have Ohana or even the Aloha spirit ... And it was directly aimed at shearer who can't seem to identify a contrast of Island culture to Australian culture and the gulf that lies between. Even though he was just in Tahiti who are more traditional than the hawaiians

[crabmeat thompson]

Just on the racism thing, I'm not claiming that Australians aren't racist, I'm just saying that you can't say that Australians are racists.

Fact is, we aren't, as a nation. You can't say that a country is racist. You can however apply that to a culture, where the very depths of that culture demand that you look upon others as being of lesser value. A number of cultures thrive on that distinction, and we don't, it is not our point of difference. We are a strangely welcoming hugely affectionate people.

And then there are the checkout chicks! You can't judge a country by its checkout chicks. Racism is also mightily connected with education, and that is a constant in pretty much every country.

I have seen it wherever I have travelled. Have yet to come across any country that doesn't have exactly the same problems with racism that we have, in almost identical proportions. Have read lots, and its the same ugly beast in every place.

No country can point the finger at Australia without accusing itself of the same crime.

So americans claiming OZ as racist, FMD. Yes, we harbour racist citizens, and so do you.

Was working on the goldie a few weeks ago. Pulled up to a pedestrian crossing at Burleigh and a young indian couple cross the road. Clearly tourists. A group of 20 somethings in a nice Honda Accord pull up and start telling the Curry munchers to fcuk off home, and get out of 'their' country.

Don't even get me started on some of the shit that I saw around Palmy or Burleigh on Australia day the last 4-5 years ...

A spade is spade. We - imo - are a more racist country per capita than anywhere else I have been to.

[crabmeat thompson]

Are you a recovering alcoholic braithy? Or, has alcohol abuse affected your life in some way?

I only ask, as what you say about alcohol seems to suggest that there's an underlying issue here.

Haha. Not at all.

Growing up having kids and watching friends I've had since highshool choose a night on the tiles over being with their kids, has diminished my respect for the booze and the people who live their life for it. Seeing the destruction alcohol has done in central australia, and I'm not specifically talking about the Indigenous, and it's hard to stomach people who can't handle the liquor.

But honestly, I'm sick of opening the sunday paper or watching the news and some other poor prick has been beaten within an inch of his life or worse for no good reason other than the other guy/s were pissed.

Like I said. I've been to the states recently and watching a lot of 19 to 21 year olds have a different focus in life - than the standard Aussie kid of the same age - than getting as pissed as possible every chance they get was refreshing and a little uplifting.

I think there's a legit argument out there that national drinking age should be 21.

[crabmeat thompson]

Ummm......point out where was I stereotyping Bwaify

I'm actually a clean skin and never been close to getting a tat just for the record. I also cringe at the fcukwit, bonehead, 'southern cross' element of our society but am smart enough to know it's only a small minority.

You're lucky then. Every 2nd kid at Uni seems to have the southern cross tattooed or stickered onto the 1999 Hilux 2WD ute.

.....and don't question my 'courage' or lack thereof on an internet forum

Makes you sound kinda pathetic.........

Now go fcuk yourself and have a good lie down.

Yeah. I'll wear every bit of that. I came back at you with a real wanker reply. Sorry for biting your head off.

[crabmeat thompson]

Being adopted I only found out in the last decade my biological roots are from the Italians you speak of.

If there's one thing I hate more than racists, It's a whiny fucking ethnic slur goes here.

Says the guy who cycles in lycra. You're not exactly bleeding manly credibility, are you.