Ask Carroll

[rmb]

They may not be fully aware of the limitations of equipment a lot of beginners are misguided by certain surf shop salesman who have no idea what board best suits there needs. The test wouldn't need to go into a lot of details but things such a stability and ease of paddling could be factors for not just beginners but developing surfers.

[Nick Carroll]

rmb asked what the average surfer or beginner can get out of the reviews in the board test.

well there is a lot of info there aside from just the reviews. there's full run downs on the designs of all the boards, the shapers assessments, a bunch of reporting on trends in surfboard design based on feedback from the boardmakers which is compared with past years, explanations of any new construction methods etc etc. as beanpole says there is also a video component that gives you a direct contact with each boards performance and commentary from the testers. All this can be useful for any surfer. the fact is that very few committed boardmakers make surfboards for beginners, and almost none of the boards we have tested in the past few years would be suitable for a start up surfer. but a lot of 'em would suit an average surfer and I'm sure anyone here would gain from checking out the Test material. Even Steve, like I notice recently he commented that he had noticed this summer that custom surfboard makers seemed to have survived the popout surge of recent memory and people were buying boards from regional custom boardmakers somewhat en masse, well that trend was well underway three years ago and was reported as such at some length in Test editorial at the time.

So there is value for many surfers in the board test, I encourage you to look at the next one rmb. btw you have now tapped out on questions here for a while.

[rmb]

No worries thanks.

[Davros]

I reckon the average surfer is looking for something that allows early wave entry but has a lively back end, a lot of boards give you that, I wonder why, cause 50-70% surfers are average. Just an opinion.

Nick have you ever considered Pro or QS surf coaching?

[steve shearer]

as a surfer of 35+ years and total board whore I find it difficult to find much value in the reviews, as they currently are.
There's a few reasons for that and without malice but just in the interest of frank and full discussion I'll put them out there.

Firstly my interest in board designs stems from a variety of real world and online sources. Primarily I see a lot of expert to intermediate surfers surfing a variety of OK to really good waves and a board that moves nicely through the water or draws a particular line well always catches my eye. I have no qualms asking someone in the water what they are riding and chatting to them in the carpark later if I get the chance. That could be anything from the latest micro planing hull being tested by Dan Tomo to a dunger single fin someone got from the dump shop to a custom built surf mat. It's the diversity of design that floats my boat and that's something thats usually absent from the ASL board tests. It's mostly the shortboard trend du jour that gets tested, or if it is a more alternative design it doesn't get the airplay or time it deserves to be thoroughly tested. it's a 3 minute pop song when it needs a half hour radio doco. Too shallow, too superficial, too perfunctory. As Terry Fitzgerald said : "To understand a surfboards idiosyncrasies you need to log some hours on it. The net result of understanding a surfboard only comes with effort." Where are the MC super concaves, the Bonzers, the Neal Purchase 2+1's, the channel bottoms etc etc? I just see whitebread, mainstream board choices.
Of course there is always Nick's clean prose and insight to enjoy but too often that only makes the other testers look like total dills who should have spent more time at school and less time surfing.

Secondly, as the ASP used to be fond of saying, the testing conditions aren't relatable. Perfect warm water surf in the Telos isn't a reliable test track for boards made primarily for less than stellar conditions on the East coast of Australia. I love surfing much lower volume boards in Indo compared to here and higher volume flatter rockered boards that go unreal here feel unweildy, cumbersome and ill fitted to the more refined and predictable curves of an Indonesian reefbreak. Having boards being tested by ex pros in perfect reefbreak is just not relatable to average Joes in Australian surf, for the most part.

Thirdly, I know Nick has said he's not interested in being nasty or words to that effect, but really it should be the primary purpose of board testing to find flaws and communicate them honestly. When you read a Choice review of washing machines, computers, small cars or whatever you want to find out what are the flaws, the deal breakers, the things you should know before forking out the hard earned. That way you can make honest assessments of strengths and weaknesses and decide if it's the right tool for the job. I read the reviews and I just honestly cannot see any attempt at objective assessment of a boards flaws. That could be in construction ...ie how did the Firewire feel in chop? It could be in performance. Ie the Tomo planing hulls have clearly got issues with the second half of the turning arc; thats patently obvious watching guys surf them and in the video. it's why Slater isn't riding them in comps. They just don't look right through the second half of a carving arc. They turn flat. That is obvious,that should be discussed. It is being discussed in shaping sheds by shapers. And yet Joe Public is not privvy to this discussion. Why? The obvious place to start the discussion is a board testing review.

Fourthly, with the tie-in on the website with third party retailers Surfstitch the whole concept is just becoming by degree too nakedly and transparently advertorial. Even the illusion of independence is dissolving. You read the (overwhelmingly positive) review and there is the button to purchase the board. OK, fair enough, thats a completely obvious commercial decision. ASL reviews the board and gets a cut from the retailer for every click through sale. But if it is going to move in that direction you can't expect the end consumer to pay for the advertorial as independent content like a Choice review. Joe Public is paying for the magazine. Thats dubious. It's not independent content, make the advertisers pay and let it find it's true level.

[offshore1]

Nice, Steve; the economist you picked up from the airport was Robert Reich wasn't it?

[Natho]

Like you Steve I find very little value in the board advertorials from any of the mags.But then again I don't think I really fit the target market of surf magazines,and I guess they cant please everyone.

[Drailed]

Steve... Why dont you write exactly about that in the Freeride?

[steve shearer]

I just wrote it right here.

But I do have alternatives in mind.

[Drailed]

No... I mean write board reviews as you described... Doesnt have to be a big expensive show.. Just you giving your thoughts on different boards...

[Beerfan]

Great points Steve. But, really, at the end of the day, someone ( regardless of who they are ) telling you how a surfboard goes for them, or even watching them surf a particular board, isn't relative to you. With any board, you need to surf it. Not just once either, you need to have at least a few surfs to know if it really works for you.

Those board tests aren't meant to be super detailed info, just a general guide, and the majority who read them would have some idea of how they surf, and what they like. Some might even use the guide to try something different in a board.


Love to see a freeride board test though, outerislands, purchase jr, JD drooool

[Slobadan Madicubich]

If Roy paid for an ad & submitted a board would it be accepted for the test?

[Davros]

I guess it's all about pushing the performance of a performance board to its limits. If anything it would be great feedback for the shapers.

[Nick Carroll]

Nick have you ever considered Pro or QS surf coaching?

I've done some, at CT level, usually around specific events, a couple of times over a considerably longer periods but just occasionally when needed, and always off the record so I won't tell you the surfers involved. But they mostly seemed to benefit.

I wouldn't really like to be a full time CT pro coach, it'd be very much a temporary position, plus I way prefer coaching my surf racing squad, there's a lot more variety among a group of athletes and there's also an unquantifiable element of mentoring or giving back to that crew, which you don't get with a major league pro athlete.

[Nick Carroll]

If Roy paid for an ad & submitted a board would it be accepted for the test?

Sure! why not?

[foamy]

Steve, on your point about the relevance of pro surfers surfing pro boards to the average surfer. The same point was made by this surf writer.
https://vimeo.com/7636883

[steve shearer]

that was interesting , I do recall those board tests done on the east coast. They seem to have had more variety in boards and certainly more relatable surf.
Maybe the Telos idea has run it's course, though I'm sure the pretty pictures must be awfully inviting for photo editors and advertisers alike.

[Nick Carroll]

I reckon Steve's points are all excellent but he's talking about a very different project, taking a fair bit more time and involving a lot fewer surfboards, for which you'd have to pay off the rack I think, just to take 'em out of the orbit of the board maker. (SL Board Test boards remain the property of the board makers, though they are mostly offered for wholesale afterwards to mag staff members etc.)

Like we are all engaged in board tests of our own, all the time really, with our own boards or quivers or whatever, much as he lays out.

I find doing the Board Tests super stimulating in quite a different way to that longer everyday experience of surfboards, and I always come away from them with some different thoughts and ideas about boards and what you can make work, it's like a supercharging of some sort. Maybe I am not communicating that side of it very well. I'll definitely work a bit more on the video side of it this year, try to get that energy across and show the boards in action better.