Ask Carroll

[steve shearer]

maybe, but geez alot of modern outlines look awfully reminiscent of those kneeboards being ridden by Novakov, Farrer and Parkes.

it's uncanny.

[Davros]

I've heard older long boarders say, more than once I may add, "look at those guys standing up on knee boards" it wasn't meant to be complimentary and probably a stupid thing to say and hence lead me to ask the question.

[bomboraa]

maybe, but geez alot of modern outlines look awfully reminiscent of those kneeboards being ridden by Novakov, Farrer and Parkes.

it's uncanny.

Absolutely. But Novakov etc's kneeboards _ short wide and usually round or rounded pin tails ridden in any sized surf _ didn't lead directly to today's short stubby stand up boards. They were being ridden in the 80s, and it was some years later before twin pin/deep swallow tailed kneeboard inspired fish started the small, wide thing for stand ups. Even though Farrer in particular would sometimes rip on his standing up.
Just my two cents but I think Californian style Lis fish have their fins, usually keels, set a fair way back, making them easier to stand up surf on. Australian style non-slab kneeboards have their multi fins a fair way forward, making them super loose and a bit difficult to stand up surf on.

[Nick Carroll]

ah yeah what I would say is that in fact Peter Crawford and other slab kneeboarders of the 1970s (Neil Luke, Steve Artis, and later Parkesy, Ken Horton and Novakov) were hugely influential on many of the young Australian surfers of the time and really opened many of our eyes to what was possible on a wave. Guys like my brother, Joe Engel, Cheyne, Russell Lewis, the young Narrabeen guys and numerous others recognised how advanced the lines were, especially from PC, and thought constantly about how to do what a "kneelo" could do. Later, with three fins and so forth they began to find some of those lines and it changed performance surfing a lot.

So it wasn't so much board design but a style of actual surfing that was influenced.

I would stress that it was only the super gifted kneeboarders who had that kind of effect, you couldn't avoid what they were doing and we were all friends anyway with a lot of mutual respect flowing back and forth.

[PeepeelaPew]

Here's a question - why do you think pro surfers don't engage with forums much? They do use social media, in fact they're prolific on instagram, twitter and possibly facebook, and I've heard rumours they lurk on various forums but they rarely if ever post and never publicly. There are some athletes that do on other forums associated with other sports (similar demographic etc), guys that are at the top of the sport.

Your mention of Cheyne reminded me, because I remember coming across some posts he made on swaylocks a few years ago.

It's not like surfers don't have spare time up their sleeves.

I think you've answered this in the past.

[swvic]

Neil Luke's younger brother, Mal, stand up, goofy, fcuken ripped. His grab rail cutties were like the best of them now. Only it was the early 80s. Probably learned a fair bit from Vege (Neil)

[Little]

Sorry Nick, I meant a grip on the deck rather than a tailpad. I've seen some made of what appears to be a very firm neoprene but they look a bit heavy and could possibly sand your nipples off. They look terrible as well.

[Davros]

Have you tried riding it as a kneelo, might be a lot of fun on peeling to close out shories up to 3 ft....

[pfj]

Having started surfing at 29 any tips on getting better quickly? I moved to Brisbane from Canada back in November. I have improved significantly since moving here but right now I find my main difficulty is being able to catch a reasonable number of waves when its crowded. Is this something you just learn with time? Do you think its better to persevere when it's crowded and you aren't catching waves or go to less crowded areas with lower quality surf? I think there is some general knowledge about how to behave when its crowded but sometimes it seems like its not doing much to improve my surfing.

Anything to do if I can't make it surfing more frequently? Is it worth it to seek out a coach?

[Hollowed out]

Whoa, there is a distinct crossing of timelines and people going on that is clouding the steps that occurred in the evolution in relation to the influence of the kneeboard. many comments reflect that opinions are based on hearsay and not from those old enough to witness first hand what transpired.

Firstly re Shearer saying all boards are planing hulls, with respect the spoon was far more a displacement hull and apart from the introduction of deep V bottoms the boards of the day were predominately more planning hulls than displacement.

Secondly apart from Crawford, most of the kneeboarders mentioned were from either a way later era or were not at the cutting edge that Greeenough and Crawford (albiet after GG) were. If you were not there first hand, I respectfully submit...well enough said.

Thirdly as Nick pointed out some kneels could also surf on their feet. I do not believe (stand corrected) George was one of them, but Crawford (who some may not know modeled his whole persona on George) was a very good surfer standing on his Kneeboard and enjoyed blowing many away utilising various parts of various breaks by switching from knees feet and visa versa. At DY point he would take off deep straight to knees for the suck up barrel then drive out onto the face jump to feet and carve a full roundhouse cute. He could also do this because he was one of the earliest kneels not to use flippers whereas the norm in the sixties and some early seventies kneels to always use flippers.

Finally, as an earlier post did hit on, fins played a major part or George's equipment which was in turn copied or adapted to the stand up surfers as part of that attempt to emulate what George had exposed. Crawford was right onto that and few know about the experiments he conducted with fins daily by cutting down and re shaping plastic single fins of the day. This really opened up side slipping and spinner 360's which Crawford pulled at will...quite a radical move in the day

[tootr]

I remember as a grom there was a guy at DY who surfed on knees and feet with equal skill.

Had a Led Zep and a Midnight Oil spray on his boards.

[Nick Carroll]

Here's a question - why do you think pro surfers don't engage with forums much?

Umm I think most of them aren't really interested in other surfers to be honest. Pro surfing is a very selfish occupation, it's all the natural selfishness of surfing distilled down to its most intense essence, and the last thing someone in that state wants to do is engage on equal terms with a bunch of non pro surfers.

They're happy to post stuff on social media -- or pay people to post for them -- but yeah, they don't want to actually talk to strangers.

[Nick Carroll]

Having started surfing at 29 any tips on getting better quickly? I moved to Brisbane from Canada back in November. I have improved significantly since moving here but right now I find my main difficulty is being able to catch a reasonable number of waves when its crowded. Is this something you just learn with time? Do you think its better to persevere when it's crowded and you aren't catching waves or go to less crowded areas with lower quality surf? I think there is some general knowledge about how to behave when its crowded but sometimes it seems like its not doing much to improve my surfing.

Anything to do if I can't make it surfing more frequently? Is it worth it to seek out a coach?

It's not worth a coach if you can't surf a shit load. The coach will happily take your money but it won't help.

Go surf at spots where you can catch a lot of waves without any competition. Learning to surf does not require good surf. It requires time in the water, and consecutive surfs with less than 24 hours between 'em.

Since you're of an age where you re probably earning some kind of OK living, I suggest saving for a surf trip to somewhere good for a developing surfer, maybe a Sumatran land camp like Aura or Telo, and make the most of that trip. otherwise, yeah concentrated doses of surf time in average beachies is a great way to improve as quick as you can.

[Nick Carroll]

Sorry Nick, I meant a grip on the deck rather than a tailpad. I've seen some made of what appears to be a very firm neoprene but they look a bit heavy and could possibly sand your nipples off. They look terrible as well.

God no. No desire to use such a thing. It'd add weight to a board for a start. Second and probably more important, it's unnecessary and may even be a drawback for a modern surfer who is used to shifting the front foot a lot.

[Hollowed out]

from my experience that pretty much sums them up Nick. draw your own conclusions as to the terminology one can apply to that type of person/attitude..not exactly endearing to the general populace or even their respective peers or wider cultural group.

[Davros]

Zep and Oils on same board, to much going on and to much different bands. Zep and say Sabbath maybe, Kaja Goo Goo and Pseudo Echo a double thumps up but Zep and Oils, no.

[rmb]

Surfing has been shortlisted for the 2020 Olympic Games in Japan. Do you think the Olympics is a good fit for surfing?

[godsavetheking]

I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer Mr Carroll gave some moments ago http://www.surfinglife.com.au/news/sl-n ... -inclusion