F******g J*w

[daisy]

So me calling someone out for their intolerance is the problem, Daisy? Wrong target, I think.

hey clif - actually i also checked that definition before i posted. but you haven't really established intolerance on MF's part. only ignorance.

i do reckon bigot and racist are becoming devalued terms, and heading towards being bigger and more damning accusations and even insults than the terms they are being used against. remember that words like spastic just used to be a description, not an insult. i know i'd rather be called a jew than a bigot

I shouldn't be so sensitive? I should stand by as the chorus grows and people begin gathering calling them "dirty L*bs" or "bl*ck c*nts" or "f*cking sl*ts", or whatever because well, to oppose them means being called "PC"?

of course not. IF they can't or won't speak up for themselves, or it is someone you know that is speaking, you fu(king well should speak up. but that is not what happened in this case. to my knowledge no-one said anything TO a person of Jewish descent.

This could mean that people can run around saying and doing spiteful and hateful things and nobody should ever do anything about it.

once again, there is no smoking gun here in the 'spiteful and hateful' variety. MF didn't say it to a Jewish person. he said it to someone who was acting like a c*nt.

Jewish people are well able to speak up for themselves, as indicated by Oldman's mates from Bondi. but it would have been more believable if they had addressed Fanning's ignorance through education, e.g. contacting him (and Stab) directly, explaining that Jewish people find his remarks really offensive with good reason, giving him a little information on the history of european anti-semitism over the past 1,000 years as the context for his remarks, and a chance to retract and find more appropriate insult to use.

[Clif]

So is ignorance an excuse, Daisy?

Also, I would think that calling someone what he did does express intolerance otherwise it wouldn't have been warranted as an insult. You see?

Iggs and Daisy, I refuse to say that what MF said is OK, regardless of the circumstances. It wasn't. And never will be, in my eyes.

I do understand what you are saying, though. Even though I do not agree.

The rest of the post I was trying to refer to speaking up against insults etc in general [the spiteful and hateful reference]. A debate about the PC call that is trotted out, if you will.

I understand your points. And I agree the approach you explain would have been the best way forward.

I would rather be called PC than give someone cause to call me a bigot

[daryl]

no-one said anything TO a person of Jewish descent

exactly...
the context within which the word 'jew' was used shows it was just a hair trigger response..
an alcohol fueled retaliation..
what happened if instead called Chas a cnut, and Chas lashed back by calling Mick a mong??
would this be seen as slandering mentally disabled people?

Outtake from the article, for those who haven't read it:

You are a **** J**. ou totally write off surfing and the you make money off of surfing. You are a **** J**.”

seems an anti-semitic statement based on its being fairly, well let's say, it was a reasonable attempt at having been thought out... the mind ticked over and came to a racist and bigoted conclusion.

[daryl]

i do reckon bigot and racist are becoming devalued terms, and heading towards being bigger and more damning accusations and even insults than the terms they are being used against. remember that words like spastic just used to be a description, not an insult.

that's just silly, bigot and racist are clearly defined and most users of these terms, surely, are not using them as an insult? Gimme a break

Forty three years ago I was called a spastic.

It was directed as an insult then.

And I took it that way.
I might react a little differently about an attack like that now, I should hope I'd only treat it as self-condemnation of the user, by the user.

How long ago could it have been just a description, in Australia?

what happened if instead called Chas a cnut, and Chas lashed back by calling Mick a mong??
would this be seen as slandering mentally disabled people?

is Mick fanning actually retarded ?

from the definition, I think he is a bigot but not a racist.

Whether he is a Westie spaz, what difference does that make? If Chas had called Mick a mongtard, and he was a spaz, then he was being racist, if you include spaz or spastic as a race, and not just a bigot?

[Shane Peel]

Outtake from the article, for those who haven't read it:

"Mick says, “So you’re Chas Smith” while shaking my hand. The he says, “**** you. You know, **** you. You write so much shit about me. So much **** shit.”
I respond, “I think I’ve only written that you’re boring and I’ve probably criticised your clothing.”
He says, “**** you. **** you. What are you going to do now that you’ve met me? Go write that I’m not boring anymore?”
I respond, “Maybe. It sort of depend on you.”
He says, “**** you. What makes you so cool? Why the **** do you think you’re so cool?” I look down at my white helmut lang button up and perfectly trim grey pants. I do look pretty cool tonight. My hair is nicely mussed too, but I respond, “ahhh, I don’t think I’m that cool.”
He says, “You **** write so much shit about me.”
And I really haven’t so I respond, “Are you sure it was me?”
He says, “Don’t be a pussy, I **** never read what you write but people tell me that you always write shit.”
His eyes are wndering around my mouth. I respond, “Oh”.
He says, “**** you. You know, you are a **** J**”
I respond’ “Sorry?”
He says, “You are a **** J**”
I respond, “No I’m not Jewish. I am English with a little German…”
He says, “**** you. You are a **** J**. ou totally write off surfing and the you make money off of surfing. You are a **** J**.”
I am intrigued by Micks analysis but respond, “I don’t make that much money off surfing.”
He says, “**** you. I should punch you in the face. I should punch you in the **** face right now.”
I am scratching my chin and trying to figure out an appropiate response. I am smiling broadly. I stand a head taller then Mick and he is leaning into me. Eyes still pulled to my mouth. We are only a few centimetres apart.
Out of nowhere a large bald man wearing a “Micktory” tshirt grabs me and pins one arm behind my back while throttling my neck. “Get the **** out of here” he says…."

Did Mick think Chas Smith was Lewis Samuels?

Posted so MKM doesn't have to buy that magazine.

Thanks for posting that Cliff I can see what the problem is here CS thought he was speaking to Mick Fanning he was speaking to Eugene Fanning a wild and crazy lad that shares a body with Mick great that you got a copy before they pulled it off the stands that will be a real collector!!!!

[daryl]

try again, dyslexically reordered, and ps it's just a touch of autism according to my counselor and nephew who's an expert

what happened if instead called Chas a cnut, and Chas lashed back by calling Mick a mong??
would this be seen as slandering mentally disabled people?

is Mick fanning actually retarded ?

Whether he is a Westie spaz, what difference does that make? If Chas had called Mick a mongtard, and MF actually was a spaz, then CS was being racist, and not just a bigot, if you include spaz or spastic as definitionally a race?

[jimmy]

Outtake from the article, for those who haven't read it:

"Mick says, “So you’re Chas Smith” while shaking my hand. The he says, “**** you. You know, **** you. You write so much shit about me. So much **** shit.”
I respond, “I think I’ve only written that you’re boring and I’ve probably criticised your clothing.”
He says, “**** you. **** you. What are you going to do now that you’ve met me? Go write that I’m not boring anymore?”
I respond, “Maybe. It sort of depend on you.”
He says, “**** you. What makes you so cool? Why the **** do you think you’re so cool?” I look down at my white helmut lang button up and perfectly trim grey pants. I do look pretty cool tonight. My hair is nicely mussed too, but I respond, “ahhh, I don’t think I’m that cool.”
He says, “You **** write so much shit about me.”
And I really haven’t so I respond, “Are you sure it was me?”
He says, “Don’t be a pussy, I **** never read what you write but people tell me that you always write shit.”
His eyes are wndering around my mouth. I respond, “Oh”.
He says, “**** you. You know, you are a **** J**”
I respond’ “Sorry?”
He says, “You are a **** J**”
I respond, “No I’m not Jewish. I am English with a little German…”
He says, “**** you. You are a **** J**. ou totally write off surfing and the you make money off of surfing. You are a **** J**.”
I am intrigued by Micks analysis but respond, “I don’t make that much money off surfing.”
He says, “**** you. I should punch you in the face. I should punch you in the **** face right now.”
I am scratching my chin and trying to figure out an appropiate response. I am smiling broadly. I stand a head taller then Mick and he is leaning into me. Eyes still pulled to my mouth. We are only a few centimetres apart.
Out of nowhere a large bald man wearing a “Micktory” tshirt grabs me and pins one arm behind my back while throttling my neck. “Get the **** out of here” he says…."

Did Mick think Chas Smith was Lewis Samuels?

Posted so MKM doesn't have to buy that magazine.

Thanks for posting that Cliff I can see what the problem is here CS thought he was speaking to Mick Fanning he was speaking to Eugene Fanning a wild and crazy lad that shares a body with Mick great that you got a copy before they pulled it off the stands that will be a real collector!!!!

Ive got one too Peely... Swap ya for a few days at your resort????

[Clif]

Mr Peel, I do not buy that magazine. And never will. I copied that material down though from a version I saw.

[jimmy]

I don't see what the big problem is with Stab.. I occasionally buy it.. The reason being it gives a different perspective.. Yeah I'm sure they are all a bunch of attention seeking cnuts and some of them show a lack of journalistic integrity (now there's an oxy moron for ya!!).

Also I don't think too many other surf mags have had articles nominated for a Walkley award..

[daisy]

cheers Clif - just for the record i don't think what MF said was ok. not at all. and ignorance is no defence. but i think the answer to ignorance is education, not media spin, overreactions and grandstanding.

actually i would have liked to say that what MF said was retarded. and that Iggy's italian friend's guy was a pussy. but those are also potentially bigoted terms. so i'm wondering what is left to us beyond pure description e.g. Mick Fanning is ignorant, Chas Smith is a parasite...kind of boring, no?

any suggestions for insults (other than 'bigoted') that are somewhat PC but still satisfying and effective? or is that a contradiction in terms???

[daisy]

Daryl wrote:
spastic... How long ago could it have been just a description, in Australia?

well i thought they changed their name already, but apparently not: http://www.thespasticcentre.org.au/

[brendo]

why do jews have big noses?

because fresh air is FREE!

[oldman]

i do reckon bigot and racist are becoming devalued terms

'Racist' gets thrown around at the drop of a hat. I'm also really happy about the way that you basically have to be white, and let's face it, preferably male, to be a target of the epithet 'racist'.

Of course, an asian can't be racist, nor a jew.

Many times I haven't spoken up where I should. Shameful. You know, fear of being beaten up, or even just starting a monstrous quarrel, has been a strong motivator for me in the past.

And will continue to be in the future I imagine.

Still working on myself.

[lessormore]

any suggestions for insults (other than 'bigoted') that are somewhat PC but still satisfying and effective? or is that a contradiction in terms???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2RyPFyxA-I

[Lucky Al]

so clif if it's not a personal question, are you a virgin?

[Clif]

Huh, Al? :?

[Clif]

Of course, an asian can't be racist, nor a jew

I do not think anyone thinks that, Olds.

[Lucky Al]

If life seems jolly rotten
There's something you've forgotten
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing!
When you're feeling in the dumps
Don't be silly chumps
Just purse your lips and whistle - that's the thing!