Has surfing lost it's soul?

[steve shearer]

Ability has got nothing to do with it, just because you're not as good as them does not mean your not as spiritually attuned to it. And secondly the act of "making music" is very different to the act of surfing a wave. It's not even the same concept because unlike playing a musical note, which is predictable, repeatable etc.... a wave isn't.

Actually music is a reasonable analogy: you practice for insane amounts of time and when you get your chops if you've got the right stuff, an ounce of creativity and the dedication to craft you can sometimes create moving works of Art.
You just cannot accept this concept of mastery can you?
You think we're all equal little munchkins doggie paddling in this soup of mediocrity.

Your experiences are valid...I'm not denying them, but to pretend their on the same level as a Greenough or whoever is just laughable.
Apart from this forum no-one gives a shitt about yours (or mine's) surfing experience's but if Greenough writes a memoir the whole fcuking world will be clamouring to read it.....Why?
Yes, I believe the Dalai Lama has reached a higher spiritual place than me.

I think this is just a difference in world view.
You seem to believe that all is equal, the world , especially surfing operates on fundamentally utopian and democratic principles.
I disagree.....there is a Hierarchy. In theory and in action.
Surely you couldn't deny that.



The problem with you shearer is that you have this fantastical notion that just because someone who doesn't devote their, life, responsibilities and a whole lot of other things to a physical act that they somehow can not love it as much or be as deeply devoted to it.

Yeah, thats pretty much it. If you accept that somewhere, for some people surfing can be an Art, or even a profession, then that sums it up.

It's akin to saying that love is something that is measurable.

It ain't measureable but it sure as shitt is variable across the human race......and it's not inherent and it takes courage and sacrifice and alot of people run away from it.

It's usually the sign of someone that has a lot of questions within their minds that they are afraid to answer, usually about self-worth, so they feel the need to fill their void with the actions and words of others for fulfilment and likewise use them against others to class them upwards or downwards as their perception dictates.

No need to play the man here mate. But how about a collection of atoms in space rushing towards oblivion in an essentially random and meaningless universe: that enough self-worth for you?

[oldman]

But how about a collection of atoms in space rushing towards oblivion in an essentially random and meaningless universe:

Star dust!

Steve, while I have argued against your line of reasoning in the past, which was more in the form of 'who is a surfer', I can understand what you are saying and where you are coming from.

Hierarchies exist, both real and imaginary. Can't escape them.

I devoted myself wholly to something for about 8 years. I wouldn't have let some occasional dabbler or student equate themselves to where I was because they had one profound experience.

I have come to appreciate the eccentrics in society. Greenough particularly forged his own path. It is the eccentrics who define the rest of us, not the other way around.

Genius finds its own path and lights its own lamp.

[mical]

just because someone doesn't sacrifice their entire f**king life for surfing, doesn't mean their experience and participation is anyway mediocre, and shouldn't be discounted as such..
if it was just something ordinary for the person involved, the average joe (IT geeks or otherwise) would just give it up and go play indoor cricket or some other shit instead..

You're right Iggs, your level of sacrifice doesn't in any way make your experience mediocre.

But to compare my experience with that of Greenough, Peter Troy and the like and say that my passion, committment and dedication is equal to theirs is just not right.

Do they have more soul? I don't know, looks like the jury is still out on whether surfing is actually a soulful experience for some. :?

Also, the layman/priest analogy is pretty good in my opinion.

A priest can spend all his life 'doing gods work' as he sees it, counselling others, writing sermons etc, but never actually spend time communing with god.

The layman could be spending every spare moment on their knees, never telling another person about god, but due to their committment to spending time with him, build a closer relationship and therefore a greater understanding and experience.

Both of them would surely still go to heaven though.

[steve shearer]

I'll tell you where the soul is......it's with the women.

After surfing with the Wright sisters at Lenny Point yesterday arvo it was amazing and inspirational.....not to say humbling...no doubt IT geeks would've maintained the primacy and superiority of their own experience...but to see the joy and spirit, not to mention just incredible surfing skills was a fcukign delight.

If they can keep creepy, middle-aged magazine editors from turning them into sex objects in a porn obsessed culture then the future is feminine.

[Nick Carroll]

I detect in you too a yearning, even if it is painful to admit it.

argh you've got no idea.

how much of that yearning is to do with surfing and how much to do with being human, I do not know.

you reckon I'm being contradictory, well, yes, do I contradict meself? Very well then, etc. It IS a contradiction. One the one hand surfing's nothing to me, on another it's bloody everything.

what I do feel is that the thing Cheyne mentioned to you, the climbing of the ladder within the dojo, it has never spawned anything of value in me other than respect for all others in the dojo, and with it a concrete sense of who I am. The rest of it is just play.

what you put into things is what returns to you, most of the time.

ok fcuk it there's waves, see ya.

[Surfin Turf]

Sorry shearer, but you may as well have sent an invitation out … and I did say in my post that everyone will always think everyone else is wrong … so in this case I think you are …

Igg’s, hatchy, ringas and mical seem to have a balanced view of the true essence in my opinion …
and lobbing a few comments around about conservative political views is just an attempt to divert from the real issue … I think tony abbott is a kook so don’t pull that one on me thanks …

dedication is not restricted to the chosen few … saying that hatchy was arrogant and then talking about dedication was one of the most arrogant things said in this thread … (so far)

the people you talk of probably get in a few extra surfs but there are 1,000’s of people who surf everyday, a couple of times a day, and get away on trips all over the world but in between surfs choose to go and do some work, raise a family, have other interests etc … even I paddled out into wind blown junk early this morning, but afterwards rather than pulling a few cones and sitting around in my draw string hemp pants talking about how everyone else is oblivious to the soul of surfing and connecting with mother earth … I drove my daughter to school and then went to work … I thought my dedication to surfing was in tact, but in between surfing I am simply not dedicated to doing f’ck all else …

I just don’t get why someone else gets to be more soulful because all they do is surf and have nothing else in life except talking about it and living a particular lifestyle … :?

I don’t go in for much of the “soul” and “connecting” stuff … like horoscopes and alike I am simply too simple to care less and so I just don’t get it … I don’t care that other people get into all that to varying levels and if that is your thing then I say good luck to you if it makes you happy … people may think that I am weird because of my passion for my yard … but I would say I’m a sight more connected to mother earth than a nomadic bong head surfer … he doesn’t even have a f’cking yard so he’s not connecting with anything out of the surf except when he digs a hole in the bush to take a crap … I go for a surf then come home and lovingly care for mother natures creations and then go for another surf then come home and sit amongst mothers natures creations whilst consuming some of gods nectar and thinking about how good life is … but clearly I am soul less …

after reading through all this it seems that surfing has lost it’s soul because there are far more people surfing who sit in the non “soul surfer” category because despite their love, passion and dedication to surfing for their own reasons they also have jobs and responsibilities, and other things in life etc. … I always felt that surfing was a part of me and something that was deeply imbedded in who I was, and even my family recognised that, guess I was wrong because I didn’t realise that actually getting off my arse after surfing meant I was not a true believer …

like I said … everyone will always knock everyone else …

[Grooter]

This

Hey Hatchy.......

As long as you get out of the surf, you've caught a few good ones by your own standards and you're already amping on your next surf when you're driving home......none of this philosophical bullshit matters one degree.

Soul No soul Who is more dedicated

I've never really given a fcuk..........The only surfers I really care about are my mates I surf with as well as me. I know the influence surfing has had on my life and I'm bloody happy with it. I don't need verification from some 'higher authority' to validate it.

Sure.....I'm interested to hear about what the more high profile/'legendary' individuals in the sport are up to but if i was denied any of that information from today onwards I wouldn't be losing much sleep over it.

and this

just because someone doesn't sacrifice their entire f**king life for surfing, doesn't mean their experience and participation is anyway mediocre, and shouldn't be discounted as such..
if it was just something ordinary for the person involved, the average joe (IT geeks or otherwise) would just give it up and go play indoor cricket or some other shit instead..

and this

You're right Trev, your level of sacrifice doesn't in any way make your experience mediocre.

But to compare my experience with that of Greenough, Peter Troy and the like and say that my passion, committment and dedication is equal to theirs is just not right.

Do they have more soul? I don't know, looks like the jury is still out on whether surfing is actually a soulful experience for some. :?

Also, the layman/priest analogy is pretty good in my opinion.

A priest can spend all his life 'doing gods work' as he sees it, counselling others, writing sermons etc, but never actually spend time communing with god.

The layman could be spending every spare moment on their knees, never telling another person about god, but due to their committment to spending time with him, build a closer relationship and therefore a greater understanding and experience.

Both of them would surely still go to heaven though.

Plus surfin's stuff is exactly the points I am trying to make.

Got no beef with Greenough, got no beef with the seasonal surfer, just don't try and tell me that my love/soul/whatever is any lesser or greater value than theirs. That's all I'm saying

how about a collection of atoms in space rushing towards oblivion in an essentially random and meaningless universe

A good point. Put in this context the argument, validation, yearning for verification of the aspect of surfing and soul is pointless.

Sorry for playing the man and not the ball Steve, I am growing shi.ttier by the day with my enforced hiatus from surfing.

[mical]

I am growing shi.ttier by the day with my enforced hiatus from surfing.

Clearly . . you've got no soul.

A soul man would swim, meditate, wittle a board from tea tree lining the dunes, ANYTHING to be near the ocean

[steve shearer]

[quote="Surfin Turf"]
but afterwards rather than pulling a few cones and sitting around in my draw string hemp pants talking about how everyone else is oblivious to the soul of surfing and connecting with mother earth …

Fcuk knows why you keep bringing up this outdated notion SnT.

I've never once mentioned that as some kind of badge of honour.
The blokes I know who are dedicated have got nothing to do with that kind of BS.


And I never said other people were oblivious to the soul of surfing....just that there were masters, genius's , fcking "magi" if you want to use Carroll's language and that to say somehow that you were superior to them or even equal in terms which are admittedly nebulous and controversial is arrogant and delusional.

There's a saying in fishing: 10 percent of the fisherman catch 90 percent of the fish. Now fishos don't talk in terms of soul or "spiritual attunement" but the reason they catch the fish while Joe Dabbler plonking a pillie off a half pound sinker catches nothing is because they are more attuned, more knowledgeable, fcuk it more soulful when it comes to fishing. They've dedicated more time to figuring out the million and one little mysteries which surround their prey and it;s habitat.

Just like you and your lawn.
When it comes to lawns I sit down, shut my big gob and listen. And hopefully learn something.
I don't blithely assert that because I enjoy mowing my lawn on a weekend I am your equal or superior in this respect.
In this respect you clearly have a greater attunement, soul call it whatever the fycuk you like.

And people dabble with surfing and give it up and go play indoor cricket evry fricking day Ignatious.

[steve shearer]

what I do feel is that the thing Cheyne mentioned to you, the climbing of the ladder within the dojo, it has never spawned anything of value in me other than respect for all others in the dojo, and with it a concrete sense of who I am..

And what the fcuk am I trying to say?????

arrggggghhhhh.....

[Trev]

It would seem we have a definition problem here.
There's "soul"
and there's "dedication"
with which you could probably attach commitment"

So, maybe we are arguing at cross purposes.
To be honest, I admire more the surfer with commitment and dedication who is also part of society over the "traditional"? soul surfer who does nothing else.
I think it takes more commitment to regularly get up early and make time for surfing in your otherwise busy life, than to live on or near the beach and just surf.

That should add a bit more controversy to the topic.

[Deesee]

To me it doesn't matter if surfing's lost its soul, as long as you're having fun doing it - who cares.

Even without all the drama and bling, good local shapers will still exist (they don't rely on only soul surfers anyway).

Unfortunately i don't live next to a beach, but still get in approx 4 hours a week with bunch of mates and it's just awesome fun. Nothing too deep and meaningful - just fun! (and good exercise).

[Grooter]

Steve

When it comes to lawns I sit down, shut my big gob and listen. And hopefully learn something.
I don't blithely assert that because I enjoy mowing my lawn on a weekend I am your equal or superior in this respect.
In this respect you clearly have a greater attunement, soul call it whatever the fycuk you like..

Are you able to tell the distinct difference between the proficiency and frequency in performing the act.

Versus the act of loving performing the act irrespective of the proficiency or frequency?

They are mutually exclusive, at least I believe them to be, as neither can be used to quantify or measure against the other.

That is the point.

[Surfin Turf]

but afterwards rather than pulling a few cones and sitting around in my draw string hemp pants talking about how everyone else is oblivious to the soul of surfing and connecting with mother earth …

Fcuk knows why you keep bringing up this outdated notion SnT.

.

for same reason as you are oblivious to the notions of other's , and for tossing sh!t at people for not subscibing to your point of view ... but mostly for the outdated notion that you are hanging onto here with your talk of dedication ... most people don't have the luxury of the choices you talk of so show a little respect maybe for those who have as much passion but just live a different life ...

another trait of having soul must also be having a restricted mindset ...

[oldman]

While initially annoyed when SS quoted another surfing guru who said that there are only 3 or 4 surfers in the world (greenough was among them, I remember that Banks didn't make the grade) I have to admit that I thought about it further.

If you find yourself bucking up at Steve's assertions, it might be worth examining why. Not why would anyone else get uppity, but why you personally are a bit uppity about the soul surfer claim.

The responses, though apparently reasonable, have the whiff of 'methinks he doth protest too much' about them. So now I'm wondering why.

So why are you offended about not being part of the true soul surfer clan.

Personally I can live with it, just another compromise in my life.

[oldman]

Of course Shearer may just be doing a bit of fishing of his own. He's a wily critter that Shearer fellow.

Just like Wile. E. Coyote, he is.

[Deesee]

Hmm. So, could you compare it like - there are blokes that make love to their missus and blokes who f#ck their missus, two different approaches to the same act and end result.

With surfing, i tend to enjoy f#cking it rather than making love to it (soulful approach), as the only aspect i enjoy is good waves and equipment - not all the other dreamful "bs" cosmos linkages, images or scenes.