Length and Volume

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JET01
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Length and Volume

Post by JET01 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:19 pm

I've been riding a 6'2 x 20 3/4 x 2 5/8 Firewire Dominator (round tailed fishy shape) but have had some trouble getting into waves when it gets above head high. The volume measurement on the website is 38L. I'm 5'10 and 82kg.

If i was going to get a longer board to aid with getting into bigger waves, would it be safe to say that i should look at a board with the same volume measurement, therefore just changing the shape of the board.

I got back on my miller waterskate 6'8 x 21 x 2 3/4 the other day just to see how it felt after so many months on different boards. The first thing i noticed was the difference in how it paddled in flat water... thought it was going to be a lot better than the 6'2 but was about the same if not a little slower :shock: .

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Re: Length and Volume

Post by Grooter » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:49 pm

You and I are the same height but I'm 6 kgs heavier.

The volume on my 7' is 2 7/8 and on my 8'6" is 3. I swapped my 7' with a mates 9' a couple of weeks ago and he's about your weight. He couldn't believe how well it paddled compared to his 9'

If you were going to go for a bigger board I'd suggest you get a wee bit more volume because you have to compensate for the additional weight of the board itself with the extra glass etc...
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Re: Length and Volume

Post by Beerfan » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:20 pm

Maybe you have too much volume?. Im similar height and weight, and my twin keel would sometimes "pop" me up out of the wave sometimes. I could get around it by getting further forward on the board, but i think the amount of area under my chest was just too much, so it was "floating" me up out of the wave. Didn't always happen though.

Maybe keep similar volume, but go with more of a wide tailed board with a narrower nose, so there isnt too much foam under your chest??

Keen to see responses from much more knowledgable people than me.
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Re: Length and Volume

Post by saltman » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:52 pm

I am thinking Beerfan is on the money 38l is a lot of volume for your weight. And there is a lot more to getting into waves early besides volume.
But FWIW I am a few kgs heavier and found at 32l there is heaps floatation.
There was a rule of thumb about volume quoted by rusty p on a shaping website - board volume should be in the range about 35%-40% of the intended surfer. So 82kg = 82 litres of water (or beer) 82l x 40% = volume of 32 l should be OK
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Re: Length and Volume

Post by JET01 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:22 pm

Sounds like i shouldn't have sold my 6'5 Stretch Quad to my mate... 6'5 x 19.5 2.625 = 33L :roll:

Can always get another one i guess
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Re: Length and Volume

Post by gibber » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:35 pm

Are you guys fit?
I'm a touch under 6' weigh around 82-85kegs and my standard shorty is 6'3" x 18 1/2" x 2 3/8" I only recently upped to these the dims on length and width in feb by 1/8".
Maybe it has something to do with your positioning when paddling for waves, and also your weight placement within your body. Lower placement being more towards the stomach will be harder to tip over the edge on a wave than if your weight was more higher in your chest/shoulders
so maybe look at where the volume is in the board rather than looking at the global volume (meaning get the thicker part near to where your body needs the most floatation)

and don't forget to take off deeper, always the quickest part of the wave and requires less paddle effort, but a bit more skill required
hope that helps

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Re: Length and Volume

Post by pinhead » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:39 pm

This whole volume/paddling thing seems to have a lot of people flumoxed. It's actually pretty simple - when you paddle you don't want to push water. The closer a surface is to right angles to the direction of movement, the more its going to push water. So the greater the bottom angle at the entry point the more its going to push water. The more the rail outline curves in at the entry point, the more it's going to push water. Look at a paddle board - long and narrow with a long flat rocker. The whole point of this design is to have rail and rocker angles at the entry point as close as possible to the direction of travel.

So what does volume do? in simple terms the more volume you have, the higher your board will float. This has the effect of moving the entry point back, back where the rocker is flatter and the rail line is straighter. This is why some boards with the same volume will paddle differently. Paddlability is about the interaction of a couple of design elements, volume being just one of them.

In terms of actually catching waves other things come into play, foil becomes important. I have heard the theory advanced that more volume in the tail or a flatter tail rocker helps you catch waves, in that you can get up and planning quicker, however flatter tail rockers and volume in the tail becomes hard to control with more powerful hollow waves, so I'm not sure about how useful those design elements would be to your situation.

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Re: Length and Volume

Post by Animal_Chin » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:35 pm

pinhead wrote:
So what does volume do? in simple terms the more volume you have, the higher your board will float. This has the effect of moving the entry point back, back where the rocker is flatter and the rail line is straighter. This is why some boards with the same volume will paddle differently. Paddlability is about the interaction of a couple of design elements, volume being just one of them.
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Re: Length and Volume

Post by pridmore » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:39 am

more volume means the board floats you better, the better a board floats you the easier it is to catch waves
too much volume can make the board unresponsive and difficult to surf unless the volume is dispersed thru board correctly....
I ride boards that are over volumed for me alot of the time and find it suits me especially coz I like to catch alot of waves but I can also manage thinner boards coz I surf almost every day
If it is a small wave board designed for catching alot of waves in weaker average waves, more volume is a bonus, but for surfing quality waves, the correct volume is more important, you want enough to paddle well but you also want a nice responsive feeling board to allow you to surf the quality waves as well as you can...happy medium ........something you learn about yourself and what you like in boards , usually learn from riding the wrong boards.....

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Re: Length and Volume

Post by Nick Carroll » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:26 pm

Beerfan wrote:Maybe you have too much volume?.
As far as paddling a relatively normal board is concerned, you cannot have too much volume. You can over-volume a clubbie paddleboard, but that's another deal altogether.

Being coldly analytical here JET01, I think the issue here is with the pilot, not the craft; if a 6'8" Waterskate -- a volume-oriented design -- feels as much of a struggle as a Firewire outline with its notoriously narrow nose and curved-out back end, then maybe you want to look at how you're paddling.

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Re: Length and Volume

Post by mswebersd » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:01 pm

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Last edited by mswebersd on Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Length and Volume

Post by JET01 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:38 pm

I've never done any swimming or paddling training, but a mate that i surf with often used to be a gun swimmer... He used to pay me out for my poor stroke when i first started surfing, but since then (3 years) i've improved a fair bit. Whilst i'm still not the best paddler i'll look into that Paddling technique thread and pick up a few tips.

At the end of the day, it's summer in sydney, and i'm not in a rush to buy a board for bigger waves. All of my boards are over 20" wide, so was looking and coming down in width thinking a more streamline board would assist with paddling if i kept similar rocker and volume.

Was thinking of a Firewire Quadraflex 6'4 ( 1 1/8" less width, 1/8 less thick, 2" more length ) it has 33.8L with similar rocker.

Not sure whether 2" in length is going to provide a noticeable difference. Might give my mate's 6'6 afterburner a crack next time it's over head.

I want a quad though.
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Re: Length and Volume

Post by gibber » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:41 pm

Um jet, why not go in and talk to a local shaper and discuss your needs with them and let them guide you towards a suitable board instead of going down the FireWire route
try talking with a few before committing to ordering though, just to get some ideas from guys who can see what shape you're in and be honest about where and what waves you surf. It's a part of surfing that should be cherished and is one of the aspects of surfing that sets it and us as surfers apart from other liesure activities/lifestyles

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Re: Length and Volume

Post by Trev » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:48 pm

Yeah Jet, gibber is right.
As you get to know the local shapers you'll find they generally have some good advice for you, not just about your board but possibly even about your surfing.
They have learned through long experience what questions to ask.
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Re: Length and Volume

Post by JET01 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:45 pm

Jumped on a bargain today... Going to have a look at Beerfan's "too much volume theory"

Picked up a Miller V-skate 6'1 x 20 x 2 1/2 with a nice blue paint job on it.

Now i just need waves. Looks like xmas morning should have something about.

Heading up to visit some family in the Swansea/Belmont area.

Anyone from that way up for a xmas surf? Knocking off work at 6am in sydney, should be up there by about 8 with all the grommies that have new boards for xmas...
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Re: Length and Volume

Post by Beerfan » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:00 pm

Let us know how it goes. I reckon its too much of a jump, but hey, im similar height and weight, but i like a bit of volume. Keen to see how you paddle it.

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Re: Length and Volume

Post by buzzy » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:19 pm

If I was 82kgs (which I'm not) I'd be on around 6'6" x 19.5" to 20" x 2.5" to 2 5/8" tops...as an all round board.

So a 2.75" board is more than enough for you I reckon.

I tend to like a board a bit overfoamed by conventional measures. If the surf gets bigger though the overfoamed aspect gets toned down a tad as I reckon overfoaming doesn't work as it gets above 3 foot.

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