Worth a few cents...

[Nick Carroll]

Hi gang, working away on ASL Board Bible editorial and what should happen but I get an email from my old partner in crime Jim Banks, the wonderful NSW North Coast surfer, guru and boardmaker.

Banksy's take on the math of surfboard ownership really hits home, specially when you're busy thinking about 'em each day for the mag. Have a read below:

(from Banksy:)
Surfboards are incredible value and owning 3 or 4 surf boards costs less per day than a cup of coffee.

When you consider how much enjoyment can be experienced from a surfboard, this is incredible value. Especially when you factor in that a cup of coffee is going to last all of 15 minutes, while a surfboard can be surfed for 6 - 8 hours a day. And then, even when its not being surfed, any reasonable surfboard continues to be a piece of fine craftsmanship and art to be admired as it stands in the corner of your room.

Just say for example you bought a major production label board and payed $750 for it. You keep it for a year, look after it and sell it for say $400. The cost to own that board is $350 a year. Leas than a dollar a day! For the same price of one cup of coffee a day you can own a quiver of 3 boards. If you drink 2 cups of coffee a day you could have a quiver of 6 boards that you changed over every12 months!

Looking at higher end boards, let’s say you bought a 7’4” gun from me. The full deal - polish, tinted resin, glassed to last. It’s going to cost you $1725. This is not just a high performance machine, it’s also a fine piece of art that a whole team of very experienced craftsman have put many hours of skill and knowledge to create. Most of my customer keep their guns for many years. Take the example that you kept the board for 3 years and then sold it cheap for $500. The board has cost $1225 over the 5 years. It works out at just under $1.12 a day! For the same price as a cup of coffee you could own three of these and change them all over every 3 years.

Many customers keep my boards for 5, 10 or 15 years. If you kept the above board for 5 years and gave it away for $200, it would have cost you a total of $1525. In this scenario this comes in at just under 84 cents a day. If you kept the board for 10 years it would cost you just under 42 cents a day. That’s less than 1/7th of the cost of a cup of coffee…..

For those of you who experience resistance to getting new boards from ‘she who must be obeyed’, here’s you argument for being true to yourself and having the surfboards you’d love to have.

I have been making surfboards for a long time. A massive amount of time and energy goes into ensuring that my boards surf well. I don’t make many boards and my current R and D costs are more than $300 a board. At the end of the day, even with my new prices and assuming I still mange to sell a 100 boards a year, I’m only going make around $200 a board or $20K a year. Twenty grand a year doesn’t go very far and there are many of us who have been doing it for such a long time now and really wondering why do we keep bothering…..

The answer is simple….. we love surfing and are passionate are about creating surfboards to maximise the pure incredible experience that surfing is. My advice is to take advantage of us while you can, because many of us are waking up to the fact that apart from the satisfaction of knowing that someone's’ loving the surfboard we just made them, there’s bugger all in it for us and we’d be better off doing something else.

Surfboards are incredibly cheap and amazing value. Even if they were twice the current prices they would still be amazing value and I don’t see how anyone could possibly say otherwise.

what do you think?

[oldman]

As a cost per enjoyment factor, surfing has to come out pretty high.

His maths is reliant on offloading the boards once you are done with it, I'm not very good at that, and you wouldn't want to rely on people giving up coffee to buy surfboards, but I don't think you can question that it is good value overall. Margins on boards have always been among the lowest margins in the business world.

Can't knock a legend like Mr Banks.

[black duck]

^^^ Agree with Jim's view. I think well made boards are value for money.

Bought my first new board in 1977 for $120 from memory. Not sure about the relative value / inflation but $750 for a new board now, 32 years later, appears great value. Any economists out there?

I also purchased a Jim Banks MK111 (twin keel fish thing) this year and it is a fine piece of work. Jim's boards do have that extra level of craftmanship. The glassing and finishing are second to none. I don't use tail pads and the board has no compression marks so far. Built to last and well finished.

[el rancho]

surfing is a great equaliser

you can spend as much or as little as you want.

its amazing how many time in the lineup you some richo with a new JS, Webber or Bourton who reads the mags and 'looks the part', yet outta nowhere we see a crusty local killing it on a 20 year old hippie spraypainted board with dolphins and we get psyched!

[alakaboo]

BD, you can use the following to check out the way prices have changed.
Whack in the price and the year, and it will tell you what it would cost now.

http://www.rba.gov.au/calculator/calc.go

Actually shows that surfboard prices have increased faster than the index.
Not quite that simple though, too many inputs to simplify it to that extent.

And Jim's calculations don't factor in inflation either, so if you are selling a board 10 years later, the amount you get for it (say $400) wouldn't buy you as much as $400 now.

That said, I still think most surfboards represent great value. Not everything can be valued in dollars, boards make me happy.

[black duck]

BD, you can use the following to check out the way prices have changed.
Whack in the price and the year, and it will tell you what it would cost now.

http://www.rba.gov.au/calculator/calc.go

Actually shows that surfboard prices have increased faster than the index.
Not quite that simple though, too many inputs to simplify it to that extent.

And Jim's calculations don't factor in inflation either, so if you are selling a board 10 years later, the amount you get for it (say $400) wouldn't buy you as much as $400 now.

That said, I still think most surfboards represent great value. Not everything can be valued in dollars, boards make me happy.

Thanks - did it. You're right, the board in 1977 was better value .
Agree, happiness value is the thing.

[steve shearer]

I fcukn love surfboards but since when did Banksy start charging $seventeen hunge for a 7'4'?

Haven't heard of any other equivalent boardmaker charging over a grand for a similar board.

I'd say he's charging more than the market will bear and thats why he's only selling a hundred a year.

Seems a fair market value depends on a few factors.....which would be worth considering in more detail.

And I'd like to know the breakdown of the $300 worth of R and D in every board.

Banksy if your reading this, no offence meant.

[Spoon]

We were up the central coast the other week and checked out the factory set up of a guy called Bob at Ocean Blue longboards. He and the guy across from him are churning out about 10 boards a fortnight and they are going from $450 upwards. Nice looking boards as well so the cost of $1100 does seem extreme.

[Nick Carroll]

^^sounds to me like you're comparing Kias to Maybachs there spoonie

[el rancho]

definitely get what you pay for more often than not with a new surf jobbie.

1700 for a brand new gun with a good solid glass job, that'll last 10 years isnt that pricey. 7'4 is alot of board to get right, especially for waves with consequence. although machine shaping changes alot.

my last brand newie cost $400. i curse the day i bought it. not saying a 400 board cant be good, its just this one wasnt.

[BDL77]

Also got the email - Classic. I printed it off and showed my wife how I'm saving money by only buying a few boards and year and not drinking coffee!!

Although between you and me I spend about 1000 to 1200 for a new hand crafted total custom piece of art - which is 100% worth it!

[pridmore]

I might apply the maths to my $500 customs.....might be able to get a coffee and a meat pie ???

[el rancho]

how much for your stockos Pridmore?

fat bat.

[BDL77]

Okay so I haven't given up coffee!

I shaped a board with Bob up at Ocean Blue Longboards last year - A traditional fish which is more a show piece as it was my first attempt at shaping and it's a complete dog. But Nick's right, they do make nice boards but they're nothing on Jim's boards.

[Jimi]

No one has mentioned that Jim bank's theory goes out the window if you snap a board! Fixing it costs a lot, and then if you try to sell it its not easy to get much more than what it cost to fix.
In saying that i'm all for custom boards, and MORE than happy with my 3 customs that give me a pretty well rounded little quiver.

[brownhornet]

I was wondering when this might pop up somewhere.Pretty significant price increase. I have 2 Banks boards. Both have made me realise just how ordinary my boards were before I got these customs off him. Still, just got a new custom elsewhere and decided to try something new even though I could have got in with Jim before the price increase at start of Nov.

Hmm he does shape a great board. Are they worth more than other highly reputed shapers? I see Jim's thoughts and think he is spot on. Think his boards are great. Will he lose customers? I would think so. I guess he is pricing his product as he sees fit which is perfectly fine, particularly if he is happier to work on low volumes and higher returns. Many other products of excellence are priced this way. I would just think that he needs to ensure superior quality. Hopefully he can consistently deliver it.

Will I buy another of his boards? Plenty of fine shapers out there. As I said time to try something new but I will treasure both my current Banks boards.

I should add I really think that the day of craftsmanship is on the out. I have a family of builders who are excellent craftsmen constantly out-priced by big development companies. Customers for the most part seem not to care about quality. The 'Bunningsisation' of all products. Hopefully Jim can maintain the niche top end and make a buck.

[Beanpole]

Yeah I reckon even if you buy top line boards its a cheap sport and buying good boards is fun. I spent so many years riding second hand cheapies when I was at school, studying and on the rock and roll.

You always learn good things from good boards when it counts. As opposed to finding out that the shapers never pulled in to anything like the grinding, quality youve just pulled into on a backyard special

I heard a salesman in a surfshop say all boards go good in good surf but I reckon thats far from the truth. Once you have to draw a few refined lines then you start finding out how good the board really is.

[LONGINUS]

Nice one Nick, this helps my cause in convincing my wife I need to have 10 surfboards available at all times