shaper loyalties...???

[Nick Carroll]

Loyalty cuts both ways. I think it's an inappropriate term to apply to the shaper/surfer relationship. How would the loyalty be demonstrated by the shaper?

This is best held in the area of practical experience and professional skill.

Maybe , but think most knew what I meant.... I meant ' what makes a surfer stick with one shaper' ? the loyalty wouldnt be demonstrated by the shaper coz how can that be done ?, just make the 'loyal' customers ( and all customers ) good equipment . Just hoping to get an insight to how and why some surfers choose their shapers to better myself.....

OK well I wonder if it kinda goes more the other way. Ie if someone makes you two BAD boards in a row, the response is pretty much See Ya forever.

Had that happen a few years back with a v good designer whose boards I'd seen under some sharp feet, custom ordered one off him after a number of conversations about boards etc, it was a barker...didn't resemble anything I'd seen him make before.

So went back, talked through what wasn't working, right there in his factory was an exact example of what I'd been hoping he'd make me (a low entry, short, hard rockered single concave thruster squash along the lines of what CI would later call the "Flyer"). And he did it again, another inexplicably shit board.

I couldn't understand it but life's too short to risk a third bad board off anyone I reckon.

On the other hand, if someone makes me a Magic Board, I'll put up with four or five crap ones afterward...'cause I'll know he can come up with the gold.

[ric_vidal]

Too many sheep (sorry daMunch), who needs another punter churning out 602 squash tails or the like?

As you know Iggy, I pretty much do what I want, primarily for me and a network of people who know me. What I have learnt in the process is you can have a heap of fun by NOT conforming to certain formulae.

Prids is right though, the ‘care factor’ of production boards can be very questionable.

OK, to be honest I like the smell of resin and acetone.

[pridmore]

ye, agree wth that Nic, thiose magic one are worth waiting for but guess it depends on how many bad ones and exactly how bad they are while you are waiting for that gold.... I would hate to think of making 1 dud but 2 would be shattering and five , well I would give up I think....bt then again some guys are nearly impossible to shape for......and its always the young guys who think they are red hot, not mature enough to really know boards yet....or adapt to a differnt stick.....

[pridmore]

otally agree wih the too much rocker stuff but they want it coz the pros have lots of rocker but they are surfing the usually pumping waves of the dream tour... bit less rocker means quite a bit more drive which equals speed which equals MORE FUN....imho.....enough of my opinion, who give s a flying farrrk wat i think anyways....

[tiger]

As has been mentioned by others, you've usually gotta work with a shaper over a number of boards to start getting things right. A lot of the time the customer can delay the attainment of a good board by wanting certain aspects in a board that the shaper might not neccessarily think are the right way to go.

Most shapers will have a formula or recipe that they basically stick to. Boards are a sum of their parts, and each shaper will generally have the variables married together in a way that they believe works. i.e. Their rocker works in conjunction with their bottom contours, which is also matched to their thickness foil, rail shape, fin size/placement etc...etc...Start messing with these ingredients, and usually a less than stellar outcome will be achieved.

So I think trusting a shaper to do what they do best, and being honest with your own ability, quickens the process of getting good boards sooner and more consistently. I mean, there must be some reason you were attracted to their boards in the first place, whether it be asthetically, good reputation etc. (because they're cheap is the wrong answer).

Ironically, if I were to get a board off someone else, I'd probably grab a rackie. If it was a big name brand they're likely to have a model/style of board in the dimensions I need. But i'm guessin with the smaller players there would be a lower chance of the right board being in stock, and custom would be the likely road.

BTW, everyones perfect board would be assymetrical .

[Spoon]

I had this Bennet single flyer pin I think and it was a dog. I have never thouught of getting a Bennet since and that was from 1977.

[steve shearer]

As has been mentioned by others, you've usually gotta work with a shaper over a number of boards to start getting things right. A lot of the time the customer can delay the attainment of a good board by wanting certain aspects in a board that the shaper might not neccessarily think are the right way to go.

Most shapers will have a formula or recipe that they basically stick to. Boards are a sum of their parts, and each shaper will generally have the variables married together in a way that they believe works. i.e. Their rocker works in conjunction with their bottom contours, which is also matched to their thickness foil, rail shape, fin size/placement etc...etc...Start messing with these ingredients, and usually a less than stellar outcome will be achieved.

So I think trusting a shaper to do what they do best, and being honest with your own ability, quickens the process of getting good boards sooner and more consistently. I mean, there must be some reason you were attracted to their boards in the first place, whether it be asthetically, good reputation etc. (because they're cheap is the wrong answer).

Ironically, if I were to get a board off someone else, I'd probably grab a rackie. If it was a big name brand they're likely to have a model/style of board in the dimensions I need. But i'm guessin with the smaller players there would be a lower chance of the right board being in stock, and custom would be the likely road.

BTW, everyones perfect board would be assymetrical .

Never a truer word spoken.

[diggerdickson]

I got most of my boards off peter daniel when I lived down that way, I was able to give feedback on each board and how they went for me, no board was a dog, each board got better and better as the relationship sorta devoloped. I have had 2 dog boards, both rackies, from that experience I have forever decided to place trust in the custom, as long as Im honest with my feedback to him before he shapes and trust that it comes out allright, so far so good

Recently moved to sunshine coast, and have never owned a semi fish before, so I did not know much about them, a mate suggested I seek out a certian shaper and talk to him about what I wanted, he delivered the goods, whenever I want another board he will be the man for me. Though since my next board I want to go back to a channel bottom will probably seek out a shaper from suggestions made in another topic on here and place my trust in them to produce the goods for me as they are a bit of a specialty

[diggerdickson]

Saw a board in the new surf shoped just opened called Coolum Surf, its a base shop so heaps of boards in there to look at. It was a Bourton Quad, lol, I know its not a channel but with the way things are I cant afford a new board each year so need something more versitale than channels ive decided, much to my dissapiontment..

The board was everything Ive been thinking about lately, 6,6 19.5 x 2.5 round pin with mckee setup. The thing about rack boards and personal shapers is that even though I think this board is exactly what I want, I cant get the exact glass job im after from a rack board, I cant get the volume right by showing my boards to the sales person there and discussing weight ect...., their job is to sell the board in the shop as its taking up retail space which is money........ I cant get those little things that make that board more mine personally rather than just a rack board with no personal touches.

Im also going to change shapers for my next board, but the reason is that the shaper im going to seems to be specialising in these boards and cares about what he does, not that my other shaper John Gilmore doesnt, but Im thinking that I may have found 2 shapers that I will be always going back to, I hope so......

[Wingnut]

Is it ok to expect some kind of discount from your shaper after so many boards?

[diggerdickson]

At my work ( I work in the telecommunications industry) we have been there for 15 years serving our customers, for the customers that show us loyalty yes we offer them discounts and go out of our way to give them extra customer service where we can because if a customer shows us loyalty we believe we should show some back........ But profits need to be looked at in deciding on how much of a discount we can offer because in the end, business is business.

Should you expect a discount as a customer, no, just be pleaseantly suprised if you get one.

[huie]

big call this one who would give f##kin loyalty to a machine
how do we decide what makes a good shaper is it someone who creates a file gives it to the machine operator who then has to f##k with it to get it to come out anywhere near right.

with modern improvments to tech & materials the modern day shaper needs to be able to do a f##ken lot more than shape the realy good boards will start to come from this side of the fence
the machines will just be shaping for the sheep.
these guys are out there now miles ahed of the pack.
look at josh dowlings boards all work done personally & he cares
ric when he stops experimenting has been dabling in the ocult& knows what i am saying.
tiger has a board that was a machine f#k up & in my opinion is a dog but the material
has given it another life & it surfs ok & it is available for anyone to try.
i have spent the last 5 yrs experimenting with every material available to me
the last 2yrs creating a core for new materials trying to stay close to std as poss.
i have looked into the future & i see so many possibles.
do not think that i am trying to sell boards on here that is the furtherest thing on my mind
my age is scaling that right back.
the young fellas are never going to learn the art as it was there will soon be no one to pass it on.
& dont forget when the machine has you all by the nuts click click & your custom order has been done. haaa
hmm & then its off to a glass shop & then picked up by the shaper handed to you for yer hard earned. so for this guy who realy has played such a small part. lets put the glassers name up there.in lights & lets not forget the sander for he can make or break yer board
well thats been a ramble for me. se ya

[ric_vidal]

^^^Good one Huie.

Not sure that people get it, or should, the industry has probably screwed itself. It’s a process business, barcodes and all go Rich go!

At so many levels it only represents one thing - money for a 'process' done. A number on an order form, a shaper’s signature template, quality control that doesn’t see what it should see.

The more repairs I do the more I realise how much rubbish is out there. I actually feel for these punters, but hey it’s a brand name so it must be good!

I’ve looked into the future, and for me it has become clear.

[Wingnut]

I believe kids today think boards are disposable & a dime a dozen so to speak, as long as they look good & are cheap they're happy.

I have personally always ordered my boards glassed to last and care for them like a new born.

[pridmore]

the shapers name is on the board therefore its his reputation at stake, if shapers QC isnt good enuff than its his risk, the smaller shapers rep the better the QC needs to be, big names sell just coz of their name and it takes alot of bad stuff ( or it should ) to damage that established rep IMO....I'm small time and have no established rep so my QC is as god as it can be ( without me overseeing all stages ), I use quality people when doing any of the processes I dont or cant or wont to ensure that quality is high and the customer remains totally satisfied, then word of mouth comes into play and then hopefully loyalties ( if not loyalty then satisfaction with previous product and service to make the customer want another and maybe more in the future )... dunno if loyalty is the best word coz riding some other shapers boards is good for surfing and the industry and can only help punters realize the difference in product and service whch is a benefit to someone like myself IMO... as a customer I always wanted a board that worked well and I was givengood one on one service so thats what I am offereing as best I can, no advertising or big name sponno guys, slowly but surely building ( hopefully ) a reputation and then demand should increase, dreaming ??? maybe but gotta have a crack...lifes too sort....shit got deep there, sorry...but at the end of the day guys are gunna ride whatever they want, some choose by marketing influence ( way toomany IMO ), some go on quality , some on reputation but I think if you constantly put your heart and sould into the product, the rewards will come...whether it be financial or other....Machined or not, at thend of the day, its gotta go well.....

ps- Mushrooms are good...or bad....or good...

[silvafish]

ive been with my shaper for twenty tears,,but id love a webber concave in a couple of sizes,plus a few hanleys,all the js range,a balsa outer island,a nick blair.and a 7/4 from wickwak..still stick to shitlips though

[diggerdickson]

Huie

big call this one who would give f##kin loyalty to a machine

Huie, you surely must be a total knob if you believe that crap that you wrote. Loyalty to a machine, what a load of crud. Not only was the board that John shaped the best board I have had, I also got to personally watch him finish the board, sand, glass the whole lot. The guy is a craftsman who takes great care in every board that he makes. Loyalty to a machine, my goodness im rofl so much at what a knob you are if you truly believe that of every person who uses a machine.

Ive also met shapers who handshape and I would never get a board of them in a million years, all I can think of is what a knobhead you must be, surely carrying that chip on your shoulder must be hard work, it must be so heavy for you.

[huie]

Huie

big call this one who would give f##kin loyalty to a machine

Huie, you surely must be a total knob if you believe that crap that you wrote. Loyalty to a machine, what a load of crud. Not only was the board that John shaped the best board I have had, I also got to personally watch him finish the board, sand, glass the whole lot. The guy is a craftsman who takes great care in every board that he makes. Loyalty to a machine, my goodness im rofl so much at what a knob you are if you truly believe that of every person who uses a machine.

Ive also met shapers who handshape and I would never get a board of them in a million years, all I can think of is what a knobhead you must be, surely carrying that chip on your shoulder must be hard work, it must be so heavy for you.

its a pity that you dont understand what i have written
as ric has said they will not understand how right he is

after making surfboards for fifty yrs i get called a knob haa go f##k yourself