Sad Use of Aussie Flag at Cronulla for Aust. Day

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touchmereverend
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Post by touchmereverend » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:22 am

While I agree completely with most of the sentiments expressed here, I am getting very tired of living in a country where political correctness seems to take precedence over all others things, where the Aussie cricket team get instantly branded by the media as racists ? WTF? ... and where I am somehow meant to feel ashamed to be Australian on Australia day?
I am sure we have the same kind of problems as any other developed, multicultural, western nation.

Hey BN are you gonna get down off your soap box soon or ya still got more to come. You sound to me like every other Birkenstock clad man bag wearer I went to Macquarie Uni with. You must be a committe member of the Macquarie Uni womens collective? :)

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Clif
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Post by Clif » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:41 am

I have never understood the "political correctness" tag. It seems very ambiguous, and tossed around loosely with no explanation.

Reverend:Could you explain what you really mean when you use this concept "political correctness"? (and don't use bloody Wiki :p)

BTW, I don't think anyone has suggested being ashamed of being Australian, but of being aware of the contradications and tensions such an affiliation carries. It's always complicated depending on your background, beliefs, values etc.

"Political correctness" : it all depends on where you stand I guess.

As an insult it probably ranks up there with being slapped across the face with a wet lettuce leaf though :D

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Cpt.Caveman
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Post by Cpt.Caveman » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:35 am

The statement "IF YOU DON'T LOVE IT, LEAVE!" is such a vicious form of conditional acceptance of other people. It implies - If you don't like everything about Australia, not just some of it, then you have to leave.

That sounds like the angry selfish cry of a small child to me? "WHAH! WHAH! If you don't like everything about me then I don't want to know you! Even if I squeal and steal my friends toys, piss in the fish pond, and kick you in the teeth for saying the wrong thing, you STILL have to like EVERYTHING about me! WHAH WHAH!". What person can even name one thing that they like absolutely EVERYTHING about? I can't think of one single thing on the top of my head. Everything can be looked at in terms pros and cons, optimistic people tend to try to concentrate on the pros.

Come to think of it, I don't like everything about Australia. I don't like the way the government handles foreign policy, immigrants, underprivileged indigenous communities, mental health, etc. etc. Therefore according to these guys, I have to leave. Even though I am born of this land, caucasian, love beer, I used to play cricket, I watch football, love meat pies, and have a hat with the Australian flag on it. I greet people with "g'day" and "how are ya mate?".

I feel sorry for people like that, that expect everything to be all-or-nothing, or completely perfect or defunct. Its obvious that they have such a narrow conditional view of things, of what is "good" or "bad", "right" or "wrong". Our way or the highway type stuff, and the highway is about three inches wide. They're the ones loosing out I say, they're a dieing breed.

How about: On Australia - "If you don't like it, then decide how you can make it better, whether you just want to accept it how it is, or whether its not the place for you? Either way its here for you to enjoy. Have a good one mate!"

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Karlos
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Post by Karlos » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:14 am

Damage wrote:Its seems that we are all pretty much in agreement.

BUT

I note that at this stage while 32 people have posted on this thread, over 520 have 'viewed' it without putting in their 2 cents.

Could this possibly mean that the views being posted are in the minority? Like about 10 to 1 against. Or even 5 to 1? :shock:
Not necessarily. Some of us just might not have the time to post, or at least post some of the more thought out responses I've read.

I'm with Clif et al on this one. There is a very fine line these days between love for your country & blind patriotism. It's been said before, but I believe those who really love this country are the ones (like Clif) who speak out about what's wrong. It's not a whinge. It's about improving Australia for chrissakes. Australia's a great country, but it ain't perfect. And that's where the work needs to be done.

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schnorky
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Post by schnorky » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:19 am

Tattoos....sheesh, So Cliche !!

Beanpole
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Post by Beanpole » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:20 am

touchmereverend wrote:While I agree completely with most of the sentiments expressed here, I am getting very tired of living in a country where political correctness seems to take precedence over all others things, WTF? ... and where I am somehow meant to feel ashamed to be Australian on Australia day?
Unfortunately rev most of this thread is people saying that the stupid actions of a few rednecks gets in the way of them feeling proud on Australia Day. Thats apart from the minority of bogans telling everyone to leave if they wont kiss their arse.

Just as far as the USA goes is it true you can't buy the stars and stripes beach towels because its considered unpatriotic to lie on the flag?

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spongeInside
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Post by spongeInside » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:21 am

agree with Clif as well...

Saw a bright yellow Monaro yesterday which had a matching map of australia on the back window with the slogan "F*&K OFF, WE'RE FULL!"
What a p00f bogan.. if the bloke lost 50kg's we could easily fit another person here.

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Post by The Oracle » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:32 am

Our flag does not have to be used as a symbol of hate, and I'm as angry as the next bloke that many now view it that way. Yes a flag is divisive, but it's also a symbol of unity. If you choose to focus on the divisive aspect then I'm sorry, I really feel for you. Symbols of divisiveness/unity are rampant in our everyday lives, but who really wants to get rid of them? Every time you step on a sporting field you wear certain colours/uniforms to differentiate yourself, and no doubt most of us play for or support teams that we are very passionate about. And that's only a bloody game of sport - why should it be wrong for us to show our passion for our country? Yes there are aspects of the place and its people that I don't like, but overall it's a pretty good place to be and I'm generally pretty bloody proud to be a part of it.

So as long as it's for the right reasons, I don't care who displays our flag. I HATE feeling guilty or looked down on for displaying what I see as a mark of pride and respect for the country I love. If the Chinese grocer down the street or the Lebanese kids at the local high school feel the same about Australia then great, I'd encourage them to stick an Aussie flag in their car or wear it on a T-shirt.... if I thought they'd be safe from some of the racist wankers by doing so...

I've got a couple of Aussie flags in my room, a boxing kangaroo one too, I wear a T-shirt with the flag on it from time to time, sometimes my green and gold wallabies scarf - but it sucks that I now have to think about who/where I can display these symbols now, for fear of being misunderstood.

Growing up (I'm 23 now) I always considered myself a proud Aussie, but the term 'proud Aussie' doesn't seem to mean the same thing to most people anymore. To me it means loving where I live, loving the lifestyle, adopting the 'fair go' approach, and trying to protect all of the above when threatened by anyone. Whilst the Cronulla riots may have changed the meaning in many people's eyes, I will never be ashamed to go by that tag.

As for the Aboriginal flag, I'd be happy for it to replace the current flag as our national emblem, but I'd suggest most indigenous Australians would object to me walking down the street with it emblazoned on my T-shirt. As an anglo-Australian, I could understand if they felt I didn't have the 'right' to wear it - which, given the raw deal they've copped from white folks for so many years, I would completely understand.

re: the Southern Cross tattoo - always wanted one, still do, but the discrimination I'd cop probably doesn't justify it. How sad.

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Post by Shaunm » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:01 pm

Noticed a couple of posts above from soccer fans.
Frig it's our flag and it's Invasion, er I mean Australia Day, so wear it with pride if that's what you do. Who cares what non Aussies like SMH think (except Aboriginal people but they're Aussies)
Better not be any police action regarding the use of the flag this year or I'll become like one of those United Postal Workers.
We've seen soccer, cricket, tennis even, with fans covered in their national flag, often causing and insighting racial incidents and no banning of their flag occurred just ejection from the arenas.
So grab a VB (or other Aussie beer), your old flag, a lamb shank, cook it if you must, then go celebrate the way you normally would, just dont let me hear you playing Men At Work songs :twisted:

Beanpole
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Post by Beanpole » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:42 pm

Speaking of wearing national symbols-whos got a pair of rising sun boardies?

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schnorky
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Post by schnorky » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:19 pm

Being involved in a couple of oil wars over the past decade, terrorism and having the previous govt sucking the toes of the righteous right crew both here and in the US is bound to enhance the spleen and fervour of aussie pride.

It just feels that the patriotic balance is not quite right at the moment. Hopefully, Rudds new mob will address that over the next few years.

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BenNickson
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Post by BenNickson » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:15 pm

touchmereverend wrote: Hey BN are you gonna get down off your soap box soon or ya still got more to come. You sound to me like every other Birkenstock clad man bag wearer I went to Macquarie Uni with. You must be a committe member of the Macquarie Uni womens collective? :)
I wish that Birkenstock's were still cool, maybe i should head to Germany.

It would seem that things got personal for you rev and instead of discussing the subject matter you've included me into your personal tirade, so it would seem im going to have to respond.

I am presenting my opinion, which, is the point of a forum right? And I am a naturally critical person, i look at things and i critique and i think thats an important part of life that i try to utilize daily. So i see these things happening and im happy to say that i'm against racism, and i'm against misogyny, and im against homophobia, and if i didn't stand up and say anything, if i didn't give my 2 cents then i'd be letting myself down. But im always prepared for closed minded twats such as yourself to open their mouth and not address the things that need to be addressed and attack someone's character.
Last edited by BenNickson on Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chrisb
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Post by chrisb » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:44 pm

Flag wearing is such a contextual thing too:-

When Cathy Freeman ran her victory lap proudly draped with both the Australian flag and the Aboriginal flag I felt optimistic. :)

When Pauline Hanson draped herself with the Australian flag I just cringed. :oops:

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Hano
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Post by Hano » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:15 pm

chrisb wrote:Flag wearing is such a contextual thing too:-

When Cathy Freeman ran her victory lap proudly draped with both the Australian flag and the Aboriginal flag I felt optimistic. :)
I felt embarrassed

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Shaunm
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Post by Shaunm » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:48 pm

Interesting view there ^^
M' agree do what you did before Cronulla, and dont be a wanker. You'll more than likely get some tools rubbing their flag in your face, so just be Aussie and moon them as you walk away.

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Dingus
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Post by Dingus » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:18 pm

heefcoate wrote:without that flag you wouldn't be here
What a stupid statement.

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Post by lovemuscle » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:10 pm

Being involved in a couple of oil wars over the past decade, terrorism and having the previous govt sucking the toes of the righteous right crew both here and in the US is bound to enhance the spleen and fervour of aussie pride.
Absolutely, John Howard is a big reason this country has brought out racism from under peoples skin. The cnut let Hanson in parliment. The children overboard, and in the 80's was always critical of Australias immigrant take. Easy to see why the liberal voting scumbags of the Shire supported the pricks every move.
Im a proud Aussie but I dont need a flag or a shirt to prove it.

sean--
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Post by sean-- » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:22 pm

lovemuscle wrote:
Being involved in a couple of oil wars over the past decade, terrorism and having the previous govt sucking the toes of the righteous right crew both here and in the US is bound to enhance the spleen and fervour of aussie pride.
Absolutely, John Howard is a big reason this country has brought out racism from under peoples skin. The cnut let Hanson in parliment. The children overboard, and in the 80's was always critical of Australias immigrant take. Easy to see why the liberal voting scumbags of the Shire supported the pricks every move.
Im a proud Aussie but I dont need a flag or a shirt to prove it.
Spot on.

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