A.P.E.C.

Can't find the right forum, then post your general surf-related remarks here!

Moderators: jimmy, collnarra, PeepeelaPew, Butts, beach_defender, Shari, Forum Moderators

Post Reply
Nick Carroll
Huey's Right Hand
Posts: 26515
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:29 am
Location: Newport Beach

Post by Nick Carroll » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:05 pm

Ringmaster wrote: Fact is (as someone already mentioned somewhere) is that for 3rd world countries to increase their standard of living, 1st world countries have to decrease theirs.
Actually this is not a fact, it's a fear.

Wealth in human societies isn't a closed system; it hasn't had a line drawn over it ever in human history. (i mean duhh, that's pretty obvious, there's more well-off people right now than ever before, and by well-off I mean clean water, good food and electricity, schooling and transport, not bloody Toyota Landcruisers and plasma TV sets.) Indeed, wealth is incredibly elastic, and almost always, in both real time and in economic modellings, competitive pressures between economies result in an increase in wealth for both. There's a whole branch of economics that deals with this interesting subject.

What causes the money clusters at the top ends of developed economies is the have's fear of the have-nots. It causes the haves to build in all sorts of systems to protect their sand piles from newcomers. Ironically this slows the overall growth of wealth. It's one of the reasons why enlightened filthy rich people (a lot more of these in America than here btw) have made a practice of giving away a lot of their fortunes later in life.

The same goes for human global movements which is one reason why Australia's been thriving for a long time now, we've had a fantastic and varied post-immigrant base. It's the biggest argument against all the "haves" who seem so terrified of the "have-nots" on Boat People World -- you hide from the rest of the world at your peril. Economic monocultures don't work well, and neither do social monocultures.

User avatar
yanks r us
charger
Posts: 798
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:07 am
Location: Shelly Beach

Post by yanks r us » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:03 pm

If anyone here is planning to protest...get a life ya loserrrrrrs :evil:

seedy hippies

User avatar
oldman
Snowy McAllister
Posts: 6886
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:11 pm
Location: Probably Maroubra, goddammit!

Post by oldman » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:17 pm

Nick Carroll wrote: What causes the money clusters at the top ends of developed economies is the have's fear of the have-nots. It causes the haves to build in all sorts of systems to protect their sand piles from newcomers. Ironically this slows the overall growth of wealth.
God's own truth there Nick. Re the systems that the 'haves' use to protect their sandpiles, no system is more corrupted and, if fixed, more able to do good in this world than trade laws, especially in relation to food.

While it is harder to quantify in dollar terms exactly how much Australia has benefitted from the immigration of the post war period, it has been immense in economic and social terms, and hardly more demonstrable in the food we eat. It was only thirty years ago that just about everyone in oz sat down for their evening meal of meat and three veg, every night, except for Friday night fish and chips.

User avatar
Revolution
Snowy McAllister
Posts: 5063
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:34 pm
Location: DY.CURL

Post by Revolution » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:52 pm

smnmntl wrote:
Ringmaster wrote:
smnmntl wrote:Yeah well, my APEC whinge is that Mrs Smnmntl is flying in from OS tonight at 9.55 pm, and I've promised to pick her up

And I just read that George W. Fuckwad is flying in at 10.00

They're saying that traffic around the airport is going to be pandemonium

:x
Better leave your grenade launcher at home then................
Careful... mention of grenade launchers & GB in the same internet forum might amount to what ASIO calls "internet chatter"

allahu akhbar
BOMB . BIN . LADEN . KILL . GEORGE . W. . BUSH . JOHN . HOWARD . APEC . TERRORIST

Think that got their attention :shock:
Last edited by Revolution on Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Revolution
Snowy McAllister
Posts: 5063
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:34 pm
Location: DY.CURL

Post by Revolution » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:54 pm

yanks r us wrote:If anyone here is planning to protest...get a life ya loserrrrrrs :evil:

seedy hippies
You'd rather sit back being bitched slapped from every direction by polititions, although i guess 'Yanks' that kinda living i guess your used to now.

Plus i wanna see that water cannon fuck someone up :D

Although this apparrent swell might change my plans.

User avatar
g_u_m_b_y
barnacle
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: Lennox. Central Coast. Dbah. Raglan.

Post by g_u_m_b_y » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:31 pm

who is complaining about a friday off to go for a surf?
specially when its gunna be 5 foot.
:? whats so bad, look at the bright side you (old :lol:) pessimists

wanto
barnacle
Posts: 2413
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:25 am

Post by wanto » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:32 pm

onshores perhaps ;)

el gringo rattis
regular
Posts: 314
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:19 pm

Post by el gringo rattis » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:42 pm

sydney folk dont mind hosting international events ie the olympics

they just dont like hosting apec. where alot of rhetoric and bullshit folks are opposed to is gonna go down...

good on those who arnt complacent

and all the beefed up security? i was full of FEAR till john assured us it is to protect us from 'them'.

User avatar
kreepykrawly
Owl status
Posts: 4181
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: AWAY FROM SURF CAMPS

Post by kreepykrawly » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:13 am

Just one question

We can all talk ourselves silly about poverty and how to deal with it.

but...How affective have all these costly APEC gatherings been ?

I dont think my friend Marhaba Garoobahkahaba in Angola has seen any improvement in his socio economic status and i doubt that he ever will.

P.S message to George W Bush ..You should try the Blue ring octopus and sea urchin ravioli marinated in champagne sauce...it's to die for.

User avatar
g_u_m_b_y
barnacle
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: Lennox. Central Coast. Dbah. Raglan.

Post by g_u_m_b_y » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:33 am

wanto wrote:onshores perhaps ;)
still frothng

still here
charger
Posts: 913
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:07 pm

Post by still here » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:45 am

kreepykrawly wrote:Just one question

We can all talk ourselves silly about poverty and how to deal with it.

but...How affective have all these costly APEC gatherings been ?

I dont think my friend Marhaba Garoobahkahaba in Angola has seen any improvement in his socio economic status and i doubt that he ever will.

.
Well actually Angola has improved significantly with the discovery of vast resources of oil and natural gas , apart from diamonds and other minerals .
It is being touted as Africa's fastest growing economy .
GDP is growing at minimum 15 %
Inflation has dropped from 325% to 13%
All this with 4 million displaced refugees returning since 2000 .
There has been vast investment into agriculture .
It is now a member of OPEC .
China has invested $2 Billion in infrastructure .

iF YOU HAVE ANY FRIENDS IN ANGOLA , the opportunities to raise the socio economic standing have never been better !!

Angola has recognised the need to become members to international trade organisations ie. OPEC .
They have also recognised the need to be members to treaties governing practices to preserve Atlantic Fisheries , Pollution , deforestation and desertification .
If they were part of the Asia Pacific region they would want to be here to further develop trade relations and further improve the socio economic standing of Angolans . (Just like Australia wanted to further develop trade relations in the Asia Pacific region back when it instigated the whole APEC thing )

Clearly it's important to develop trade relations . And when Gvt and business leaders have gatherings together that is a useful time to discuss legislation like industry protection , import tarrifs , and broad notions of equitable distribution of wealth , including the need to preserve global peace .......which can't be sustainable if the the haves and have nots continue to be polarised to the current extent .

Theres always a choice and sticking one's head in the sand is always an option .....for ostriches !!

User avatar
yanks r us
charger
Posts: 798
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:07 am
Location: Shelly Beach

Post by yanks r us » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:27 pm

nice....obviously kweepycwally likes to talk about things he has no clue about.

User avatar
kreepykrawly
Owl status
Posts: 4181
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: AWAY FROM SURF CAMPS

Post by kreepykrawly » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:51 pm

The Human Development Index, which was part of the UN's Human Development Report that measured education, life expectancy and standard of living found that 8 of the 20 nations that actually suffered development reversals where from Africa: Angola, Central African Republic, Lesotho, Mozambique, Sierra Leone, Swaziland, Zambia and Zimbabwe

Incidentally Norway was first for the fourth year, Sweden second, Canada fourth and the Netherlands fifth.


The 285-page report can be found on the Internet at http://hdr.undp.org

Aaaaa ...... check mate.

1. Norway


2. Sweden
3. Australia
4. Canada
5. Netherlands
6. Belgium
7. Iceland
8. United States
9. Japan
10. Ireland
11. Switzerland
12. Britain
13. Finland
14. Austria
15. Luxembourg
16. France
17. Denmark
18. New Zealand
19. Germany
20. Spain
21. Italy
22. Israel
23. Hong Kong
24. Greece
25. Singapore
26. Portugal
27. Slovenia
28. South Korea
29. Barbados
30. Cyprus
31. Malta
32. Czech Republic
33. Brunei
34. Argentina
35. Seychelles
36. Estonia
37. Poland
38. Hungary
39. St. Kitts and Nevis
40. Bahrain
41. Lithuania
42. Slovakia
43. Chile
44. Kuwait
45. Costa Rica
46. Uruguay
47. Qatar
48. Croatia
49. United Arab Emirates
50. Latvia
51. Bahamas
52. Cuba
53. Mexico
54. Trinidad and Tobago
55. Antigua and Barbuda
56. Bulgaria
57. Russia
58. Libya
59. Malaysia
60. Macedonia
61. Panama
62. Belarus
63. Tonga
64. Mauritius
65. Albania
66. Bosnia and Herzegovina
67. Suriname
68. Venezuela
69. Romania
70. Ukraine
71. Saint Lucia
72. Brazil
73. Colombia
74. Oman
75. Western Samoa
76. Thailand
77. Saudi Arabia
78. Kazakhstan
79. Jamaica
80. Lebanon
81. Fiji
82. Armenia
83. Philippines
84. Maldives
85. Peru
86. Turkmenistan
87. St. Vincent and the Grenadines
88. Turkey
89. Paraguay
90. Jordan
91. Azerbaijan
92. Tunisia
93. Grenada
94. China
95. Dominica
96. Sri Lanka
97. Georgia
98. Dominican Republic
99. Belize
100. Ecuador
101. Iran
102. Palestinian Territories
103. El Salvador
104. Guyana
105. Cape Verde
106. Syria
107. Uzbekistan
108. Algeria
109. Equatorial Guinea
110. Kyrgyzstan
111. Indonesia
112. Vietnam
113. Moldova
114. Bolivia
115. Honduras
116. Tajikistan
117. Mongolia
118. Nicaragua
119. South Africa
120. Egypt
121. Guatemala
122. Gabon
123. Sao Tome and Principe
124. Solomon Islands
125. Morocco
126. Namibia
127. India
128. Botswana
129. Vanuatu
130. Cambodia
131. Ghana
132. Myanmar
133. Papua New Guinea
134. Bhutan
135. Laos
136. Comoros
137. Swaziland
138. Bangladesh
139. Sudan
140. Nepal
141. Cameroon
142. Pakistan
143. Togo
144. Republic of Congo
145. Lesotho
146. Uganda
147. Zimbabwe
148. Kenya
149. Yemen
150. Madagascar
151. Nigeria
152. Mauritania
153. Haiti
154. Djibouti
155. Gambia
156. Eritrea
157. Senegal
158. East Timor
159. Rwanda
160. Guinea
161. Benin
162. Tanzania
163. Ivory Coast
164. Zambia
165. Malawi
166. Angola
167. Chad
168. Democratic Republic of Congo
169. Central African Republic
170. Ethiopia
171. Mozambique
172. Guinea-Bissau
173. Burundi
174. Mali
175. Burkina Faso
176. Niger
177. Sierra Leone
Last edited by kreepykrawly on Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
yanks r us
charger
Posts: 798
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:07 am
Location: Shelly Beach

Post by yanks r us » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:59 pm

And whats this got to do with the effectiveness of APEC

thanks for calling my check mate on you ;)

User avatar
murrum
Local
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:53 am
Location: South

Post by murrum » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:05 pm

Nick Carroll wrote:
Ringmaster wrote: Fact is (as someone already mentioned somewhere) is that for 3rd world countries to increase their standard of living, 1st world countries have to decrease theirs.
Actually this is not a fact, it's a fear.

Wealth in human societies isn't a closed system; it hasn't had a line drawn over it ever in human history. (i mean duhh, that's pretty obvious, there's more well-off people right now than ever before, and by well-off I mean clean water, good food and electricity, schooling and transport, not bloody Toyota Landcruisers and plasma TV sets.)...

What causes the money clusters at the top ends of developed economies is the have's fear of the have-nots...

The same goes for human global movements which is one reason why Australia's been thriving for a long time now...
This is true, "real", globalisation, and real "free trade" allows all to make the most of their respective advantages to compete and everyone kicks a goal...
However, there are "limits" to how much we can all have, based on available resources, and our ability to use these efficiently. The old "ecological footprint" method, is a good rough line that you can draw over everyone, and work out whether we are living beyond our means, even if it came down to sharing it all out.
the dreams that stuff was made of

User avatar
whitey
regular
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:17 am
Location: Little Olde Avoca Town

Post by whitey » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:14 pm

ether wrote:
TrevG wrote: Their are fanatics among all three of these religions who espouse the "ours is the only path etc etc crap". You can trace most of the troubles in the world back to the crazies.
Nah, I don't buy it, Trev. Not denying there's fanatics out there, but that's not where all the troubles come from.

Did George Bush launch his invasion to convert Iraqis to hardcore Christianity?
Bush referred to it [Iraq/Afghanistan] today in his press conference today after meeting with John Howard as "A battle of ideologies"

User avatar
kreepykrawly
Owl status
Posts: 4181
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: AWAY FROM SURF CAMPS

Post by kreepykrawly » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:24 pm

You trying to wind me up yanksrus ?

My point was with all these costly APEC gatherings places like Angola are actually going backwards rapidly.

Isnt that money better off spent developing there infrastructure , education and hospitals etc.

In this age of instant communication through cyber conferencing do we need to have crippling gatherings such as this.

I reckon Sydney needs a Brazilian to get rid of the Bush.

The Dan
Local
Posts: 494
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:15 pm

Post by The Dan » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:29 pm

can we stop calling it "globalisation" and just call it by its right name, economic imperialism, please. And can we stop calling our economic policies "free trade". By the correct classification there fascist in there organisation and implementation.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 101 guests