RealSurf Surfers' Forum

Ether you are right in saying Bush didnt use religion as such as a reason to invade Iraq. However if you look through the history books the majority of troubles are religion based. You only have to look at the problems in Sudan, Somalia, Israel etc.

^^^^I don't buy that either. God might be the first conscript of any war - as the saying goes - but I reckon once you peel away the rhetoric it's rarely the underlying reason.

ether wrote:^^^^I don't buy that either. God might be the first conscript of any war - as the saying goes - but I reckon once you peel away the rhetoric it's rarely the underlying reason.

Need to expand on that. If not religion, what is?

TrevG wrote:

ether wrote:^^^^I don't buy that either. God might be the first conscript of any war - as the saying goes - but I reckon once you peel away the rhetoric it's rarely the underlying reason.

Need to expand on that. If not religion, what is?

How about greed, power & lust for a start?

Eugene Debs, World War 1 objector, socialist and Labor leader, 1918:

"Wars throughout history have been waged for conquest and plunder. In the Middle Ages when the feudal lords who inhabited the castles whose towers may still be seen along the Rhine concluded to enlarge their domains, to increase their power, their prestige and their wealth they declared war upon one another. But they themselves did not go to war any more than the modern feudal lords, the barons of Wall Street go to war.

The feudal barons of the Middle Ages, the economic predecessors of the capitalists of our day, declared all wars. And their miserable serfs fought all the battles. The poor, ignorant serfs had been taught to revere their masters; to believe that when their masters declared war upon one another, it was their patriotic duty to fall upon one another and to cut one another's throats for the profit and glory of the lords and barons who held them in contempt. And that is war in a nutshell. The master class has always declared the wars; the subject class has always fought the battles. The master class has had all to gain and nothing to lose, while the subject class has had nothing to gain and all to lose — especially their lives."

For that insightful wisdow he got 10 years in prison.
Religion is the fall guy, behind every war in history is an economic motive.

Nick Carroll wrote:I wanted to add to this but find I have no words...just hope everyone in Australia remembers this come the election, and are aware just why it is that the current Govt has chosen Sydney, despite the colossal cost and quite offensive exclusion of the citizenry ... because Johnny had hoped this would be his electoral kick over the line.

I truly hope it is the exact opposite.

Except that it was Bob Hawke that came up with the original idea of the APEC gathering

i'd like to agree with you guys and say what a disgraceful waste of taxpayers money APEC is. But at the same time i have the equally compelling urge to disagree and tell you all to grow a sack. for f*ck's sake. does it really make a difference to you as individuals if the government is spending the money on hospoitals or schools or APEC or strap ons for wild post-election victory parties? i know that when i go to a hospital, i get better treatment than i would if i stood minding my own business in a field in Sudan. Cuz i certainly wouldnt be getting raped and shot to death in front of my children by government-backed troops in an australian hospital now would i? i think we as australians have just become one big useless whinging bunch of dickless nancies. "oh boo hoo, i cant get to work for a few days, or i have to walk through a fence." cry me a river you pu*sies. i dont think one australian has stepped back n thought about how bloody good we have it in this country and maybe we should all stop being such a bunch of fat greedy arseholes and be thankful for once. and as for you protesters, get a life. you think walking down the street with a sign saying "no bush" means the citizens of the US will see it on tv and impeach their president cuz you said so? you're all delusional. your aspirations to bringing down the worlds most powerful man will stay limited to your *** myspace pages. you're unimportant and expendable. the world leaders wont notice you because you'll be stuck behind those big fences, because you're all nobodies. losers. get a haircut, grow a sack and get a real job.

Hairy-Joefish,

Ill answer with Debs again

"If it had not been for the discontent of a few fellows who had not been satisfied with their conditions, you would still be living in caves. Intelligent discontent is the mainspring of civilization.

Progress is born of agitation. It is agitation or stagnation."

There's been a massive student movement over the past couple of weeks (large even for the activism-mad universities) to convince people to head in on Sept 8th to protest. The greenies, hippies, communists and socialists have really united for this one - apparently they've been hitting high schools and inter-state universities to boost numbers.

I think theres a saying for this. Something to do with a match and a full tank of petrol.

fair enough dan...but there is difference between being discontent and being a pussy. australians (particularly whinging sydneysiders) have little to be unhappy about in comparison to what is happening elsewehere in the world. all im asking for is a little perspective. im sick to death of hearing these bloody nancies whinge 24/7. wankers.

kookmachine wrote:I think theres a saying for this. Something to do with a match and a full tank of petrol.

i've got a different one, involving tits and a bull.

me thinks the basic premise of the discontent is not aimed at the inconvenience but the decadence that could have been bestowed not upon the ruling elite of foreign powers but upon those parts of Australian society that would benifit from an injection of funds.

I cannot believe how many people actually give a fk about this thing.

This is hardly 'general surf discussion'

It will be at Bondi Beach this weekend.
I have to try to get to work through the middle of all this.

The Dan wrote:me thinks the basic premise of the discontent is not aimed at the inconvenience but the decadence that could have been bestowed not upon the ruling elite of foreign powers but upon those parts of Australian society that would benifit from an injection of funds.

Piss in the ocean when compared to the double original size desal plant. Creating something like 500% surplus in a matter of months.


Aside:
Life must be pretty good when we complain about having 500% surpluses and increasing our daily commute by 10 minutes. Others complain that they are denied food, water and medicine.

Such a good racial joke could be made there, but i was told not to and called nasty names last time

Stokie wrote:I cannot believe how many people actually give a fk about this thing.

Yeah, quality input.

I agree with The Honorable Dan in what he says about intellectual discontent.

And to pigeon-hole anyone who wants to dissent as a hippie or a uni student or a rent-a-crowd or a straight out whinger just gives away that your a brain-washed moron.