Bells this year ?

[crabmeat thompson]

Taj Burrows punches like a pre pubescent girl. Did he even compress his 4-ounce deck?

Hoochie mama.

[Buff_Brad]

Took a bit of interest in this year's Bells and yeah a comment on the final........as much as I like Mick Fanning and was happy to see him win ........ come on those scores???

At least one of Slater's 8.07s was a 9 and Mick's third and final wave a 9.70??? I couldn't see that getting much more than a 9.0 at best maybe a 9.5 (tops) if he completed the last air reverese. It was a big set though. Does this elavate the surfer's score THAT much??

Hate to say it but Slater seemed completely ripped off!! Those carving 360s are hard - no one else does them and his turns were pretty decent elsewhere on BOTH 8.07s. And he fully completed both waves.

His 10 was deserved as this is consistent with the scoring ie his similar punt in NY to beat TB. And far out it was pretty insane.

It was a great final but the scoring seemed completely inconsistent and out of whack with the rest of the comp.....

Discuss.......I'm happy to be proven wrong , in fact I'd love some "expert" to explain it adequately.

[BA]

Pretty much agree with ya BB. Although Bede regularly does the carving 360 as well.

Can't understand why people whinge abount contests. Watching those finals was mind-blowing.

[crabmeat thompson]

Yeah I couldn't help but feel Slater won the final. And then you look, it's a Rip Curl event and a Rip Curl rider gets the -- questionable -- bacon.

[Nick Carroll]

Gosh braithy that's about the weariest ol chestnut there is.

The panel doesn't give a shit about who sponsors the contest. They judge contests sponsored by all the bloody surf companies. Four weeks ago Taj Burrow, possibly Billabong's top rider, won the Quiksilver Pro at Snapper Rocks. Last year Kelly Slater won the best event of the year at Teahupoo against Owen Wright in the final. The event was sponsored by Billabong, Kelly surfs for Quiksilver, Owen surfs for Rip Curl.

List of recent winners of Bells, Joel Parkinson, Andy Irons, Kelly Slater, whom of these surfers are sponsored by Rip Curl? None. Not since Mick in 2001 in fact.

Yep the tour is a bit insular, yep the judging panel makes human errors, nope the sponsors do not influence the judging in any way whatsoever.

I love the arguments about judging/scores/etc at these events and I reckon they are the best evidence of how we all actually do give a shit who is ripping and who isn't, and how we can't help but pay attention.

I also reckon it is worth going back and replaying the rides from the final (as the judges get to do) and examining the fine detail of the rides. I did, and revised an earlier opinion I'd held, that they'd burned KS on his 360 carve ride. On first sight I thought that wave should have earned him a 9-plus; Kelly was surfing as good as he possibly can on a wave that shouldn't have allowed a 4. But the replay told the story of the ride. It was a tight final yet a successfully scored one. Also if you will examine the stark facts of that final's flow. Kelly rode 13 waves for a wave score average of just over 3. Mick rode three waves for a wave score average of 9.13. Who was the dominant surfer?

[jimmy]

I agree with everything you said there Nick. But IMHO the whole thing gets a bit convoluted when the judges start evening things up. I don't think Kelly's wave was a 10. Yes a great air but thats all it was. It seemed to me that the judges correct over or under scoring on subsequent waves which makes it murky.
There is no way Mick's 9.7 was a nearly perfect wave. As well one of Kelly's 8.1's should have been scored higher.
I am in no particular camp in regards to the result but it seems to that there is a fair bit of "balancing things in hindsight" where the judging is concerned.

A good mate of mine was judging a WQS in Sri Lanka a couple of years ago and had a chat with Richie who said essentially, "We need to even up the scores retrospectively".

That is a flaw in the system I think and needs to adressed if the constant bitching about judging is going to be put to bed.

[blueBottleSting]

How do judges know the degree of difficulty to perform a move if they cant do it themselves, ie how do they compare a 360 versus a slob grab.

Will judging be more like diving or aerial skiing were moves have a pre determined degree of difficulty and this is a multiplier factor when scoring.

[Donweather]

Jimmy, how can you say Slaters aerial was not worthy of a 10. His height and shorewartd projection combined with the no grab rotation and landing on the flats and pulling it off was well worth a 10. That is by far the best aerial in a contest I have ever seen, hands down. Sure is was only one manouvre, but feck it was an amazing manourve to pull off in a contest. Compare that to DeSousa's 8 something for a floater in Brazil last year and Slaters aerial should have then been worthy of 16 points.

I do think Slater was then underscored on his 8 point ride, but then its nice to see him underscored for once rather than the usual overscored. Don't believe Mick's 9.7 was worthy of that ride either. BUT, at the end of the day I do agree with the result. Mick surfed that heat way better than Slater and hence I believe the judges got the total heat scores right.

[Yuke Hunt]

I do think Slater was then underscored on his 8 point ride, but then its nice to see him underscored for once rather than the usual overscored. Don't believe Mick's 9.7 was worthy of that ride either. BUT, at the end of the day I do agree with the result. Mick surfed that heat way better than Slater and hence I believe the judges got the total heat scores right.

Seems to be the consensus ... but what was really nice to see was Old Baldy getting flustered ... both during and after the the battle ... Mick did a real number on him ... with the silent treatment ... early combo and the intestinal fortitude to play his own game ... channeling a bit of MP mongrel and turning the tables on Slater ... nice for a change ... Mick Eugene-ious Fanning ... game on.

[crabmeat thompson]

Gosh braithy that's about the weariest ol chestnut there is.

Just throwing it out there NC. Not saying I believe it

One way the companies can recoup is ... wherever possible, for their riders to get the benefit of the doubt -- ala Rugby League when a try goes to the video ref, the benefit of the doubt goes to the try scorer, rather then the defender.

For me to score that final, it would have been too close to call. And you can't have a draw.

[Nick Carroll]

It seemed to me that the judges correct over or under scoring on subsequent waves which makes it murky.

Yeah, I know this does happen from time to time and wondered if the panel had suffered a bit of seller's remorse after the 10 and pulled that 8.07 down a notch.

It's interesting to compare the judges -- remember the wave score is an averaging, not a singular score. All five judges went 10 on Kelly's rotation; they differed by a point on his second 8.07, highest being 8.3. Ie even if all the judges had matched the single highest score on that wave, it still wouldn't have been enough for a win.

The variation on Mick's 9.7 was just over half a point.

Sometimes it is as if the judging erects an obstacle course for the surfers -- here's a three-bar jump! Can you pull it??

Truth is that final turned on the first good ride, it was a tribute to Kelly that he got himself back into it after that. Two superb surfers showing plenty of steel.

[moreorless]

Thought Fanning won it fair and square. Apart from the stumble on the shorebreak, don't think his 9.7 wave could have been ridden any better by anyone. Turns just so critical and committed and composed. In contrast, thought Slater's 360, while radical, was not executed cleanly. There was a slightly awkward recovery, and that may have made the difference between an 8.something and a 9.

[Animal_Chin]

Is there a better way?

Hate to ask what if... but what if a list of maneuvers was published by the governing body, with associated scoring.

That scoring was then subject to a weighting based on local comp conditions and associated degree of difficulty.

I guess the aim is to remove subjectivity from the judging. Although that can (and does) add interest to a comp.

[jimmy]

Jimmy, how can you say Slaters aerial was not worthy of a 10. His height and shorewartd projection combined with the no grab rotation and landing on the flats and pulling it off was well worth a 10. That is by far the best aerial in a contest I have ever seen, hands down. Sure is was only one manouvre, but feck it was an amazing manourve to pull off in a contest. Compare that to DeSousa's 8 something for a floater in Brazil last year and Slaters aerial should have then been worthy of 16 points.

I do think Slater was then underscored on his 8 point ride, but then its nice to see him underscored for once rather than the usual overscored. Don't believe Mick's 9.7 was worthy of that ride either. BUT, at the end of the day I do agree with the result. Mick surfed that heat way better than Slater and hence I believe the judges got the total heat scores right.

Don. You just proved my point regarding the "evening" of scores. That's the only point I was making pal.

[Nick Carroll]

Is there a better way?

Hate to ask what if... but what if a list of maneuvers was published by the governing body, with associated scoring.

That scoring was then subject to a weighting based on local comp conditions and associated degree of difficulty.

I guess the aim is to remove subjectivity from the judging. Although that can (and does) add interest to a comp.

Surfing's too dynamic for that. The environment's not controlled and the sport is still developing -- individual moves are still being invented and tweaked almost daily.

I had an interesting chat with Kelly after the final, about his friendship with MP. Few know that Mick took a keen interest in pro surfing right up to the end of his life, and would send KS tips and tricks based on what he saw happening in his career. Kelly was a bit bemused by their connection (which he felt as well); like he said, "We're very different people." Though perhaps given Kelly's experience of fractured family life and wayward male role models, the connection wasn't totally surprising. But KS's take on MP's own comp career was also interesting; talking about the tips MP sent him, he said "It's funny because when he was competing, it was under a way more primitive system. I mean, points for manoeuvres! It's almost encouraging you to surf badly."

And it does -- or it would. Surfing isn't just individual moves, pre-selected by a governing body, it's an evolving tale told with flow, speed, power, timing and a strong awareness of the moment. The panel has actually battled quite hard to get to the point where they're close to getting it right almost all the time. That's because they are led by the performances, not the other way around. But that's the essence of surfing.

[steve shearer]

Also if you will examine the stark facts of that final's flow. Kelly rode 13 waves for a wave score average of just over 3. Mick rode three waves for a wave score average of 9.13. Who was the dominant surfer?

I profoundly disagree with the implied conclusion of that question on a molecular level.
and I intend to explain why in a longer form article viewable for free online at Swellnet (Hi Tim Happy Easter!)

[Yuke Hunt]

Also if you will examine the stark facts of that final's flow. Kelly rode 13 waves for a wave score average of just over 3. Mick rode three waves for a wave score average of 9.13. Who was the dominant surfer?

I profoundly disagree with the implied conclusion of that question on a molecular level.
and I intend to explain why in a longer form article viewable for free online at Swellnet (Hi Tim Happy Easter!)

I ... on the other hand profoundly agree with the implied conclusion of said question ... molecules aside.
and I too will start the next sentence with a lower case aye on my and ... and have no intentions what so ever of expanding on the reasoning that led me to this verdict ... either on line ... nor in person.
But ... I must confess that I think KS thinks he won ... and that in itself was evident by the fact that he dinged the donger on the podium ... during his thinly veiled attempt at being a good loser ... noice.

[Moore]

Point scoring moves will only serve to produce more contest machines who show little on the way of flair of individuality I reckon.... It's a dangerous progression.

In fact, there may be some argument to be made for relaxing the criteria further to allow even more for individual style and approach. This would arguably make things more arbitrary in the context of decisions, but would also make for some bloody good heats.

I grew up skating in the late 80s and remember the clashes Hawk used to have with Christian Hosoi; the polished, technical wiz vs the flamboyant, slightly unhinged big- air freak. Two completely different styles going head to head.

However, surf contests these days have much more money involved and are a far more serious kettle of fish as a result of it, so i can see the argument for pinning the criteria down and the efforts to be accountable and 'fair'