Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Discuss shaping and repairing techniques here.

Moderators: Shari, collnarra, Butts

User avatar
Cpt.Caveman
barnacle
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:13 am
Location: Sydney - Everywhere and nowhere.

Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by Cpt.Caveman » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:30 pm

Hi guys,

I'm about to shape my second home-shaped board soon and I'm really keep for peoples ideas and inputs about the shape.

What I'm thinking is a single fin in the six foot sumthin range with lots of volume and width, forward widepoint to quite a straight-ish rail-line, to a wider than usual square or diamond tail. A little simmons-esque almost (bit like this but the single fin - http://www.mctavish.com.au/surfboard/scooter )

The idea is - when I'm surfing it I'd like a single fin with lots of glide which rewards good positioning and flow, which will surf small waves, tear apart 1-2ft the pass, actually not like too aggressive or active surfing. A nice trim when you come forward etc.

The catch is - I'd like it to have good stability for friends who want to have a crack at learning how to surf, and I'm not too keen on having a mal. I'd prefer a mid-length style single fin with some stability rather than a pin-tail.

So, what suggestions do you guys have? Vee? Vee with double? Flat to vee? Rails? Rocker amount? etc.

Would love to hear some suggestions..
Davros wrote:Ego saved - surfing experience rubbish.

alakaboo
Duke Status
Posts: 15520
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by alakaboo » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:50 pm

My thought are:
Why complicate things?
A learner is going to be fine on a board of that size and shape.
Design and shape the board you want, there is plenty of volume and width there for a learner.

User avatar
Cpt.Caveman
barnacle
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:13 am
Location: Sydney - Everywhere and nowhere.

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by Cpt.Caveman » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:35 pm

alakaboo wrote:My thought are:
Why complicate things?
A learner is going to be fine on a board of that size and shape.
Design and shape the board you want, there is plenty of volume and width there for a learner.
So you reckon provided I keep the dimensions generous - e.g. 6'6" x 21" x 2 3/4", keeping the nose and tail wide too (whatdya reckon, 17" nose, 16 1/2" tail?), that would suit a learner too?

Similar planshape to the Scooter. Hell, I might even take a screenshot and use the exact template?
Davros wrote:Ego saved - surfing experience rubbish.

User avatar
Cpt.Caveman
barnacle
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:13 am
Location: Sydney - Everywhere and nowhere.

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by Cpt.Caveman » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:58 pm

This blank looks perfect, will barely need to skim much foam off to get to 2 3/4", can just chop 4" off the tail or so which will help with the wide-tail theme, and the outline and dimensions are pretty much perfect - http://www.surfblanksaustralia.com/blan ... rds/7-0-lb
Davros wrote:Ego saved - surfing experience rubbish.

alakaboo
Duke Status
Posts: 15520
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by alakaboo » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:14 pm

Cpt.Caveman wrote:So you reckon provided I keep the dimensions generous - e.g. 6'6" x 21" x 2 3/4", keeping the nose and tail wide too (whatdya reckon, 17" nose, 16 1/2" tail?), that would suit a learner too?
I reckon.
That's going to be a fair bit of board, I've got one roughly those dimensions and it is almost 40L.

In terms of tail width I might pull it in a bit, but I'm not the man to talk to about the intricacies of surfboard design. I just tell Huie what sort of waves I want to ride and take what I'm given.

I don't really go with the 'get the biggest board you can' philosophy for teaching learners.
From my own experience, and those I've tried to teach, once they've got to the point of standing up, the inability to turn rapidly becomes more important than the stability. And you don't want to be stuck with something that feels like surfing a door for the rest of the year.

Are you up in northern NSW now?

User avatar
Cpt.Caveman
barnacle
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:13 am
Location: Sydney - Everywhere and nowhere.

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by Cpt.Caveman » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:39 pm

Nah I wish, back in the big smog (Sideney)

Yeh thats a good point. The width will give stability for a learner I can imagine, and the volume easy paddling and getting in early. Maybe I should keep the planshape and length pretty similar then?

If I shave off about 3/16" of thickness through its guts that'll bring it down to 2 3/4" and it will flatten the rocker nicely a teeny bit. That seems a fair bit of tail kick already (2 1/2").

I could give it a nice amount of vee and lowish rails, plus a bit of hard edge through the back for release.

Any mid-length or mal officianados care to chime in to recommend what will make it surf super smooth and still have a little freedom to turn off the rear?

Image
Davros wrote:Ego saved - surfing experience rubbish.

ctd
barnacle
Posts: 1460
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:49 pm

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by ctd » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:12 pm

alakaboo wrote:I don't really go with the 'get the biggest board you can' philosophy for teaching learners.
From my own experience, and those I've tried to teach, once they've got to the point of standing up, the inability to turn rapidly becomes more important than the stability. And you don't want to be stuck with something that feels like surfing a door for the rest of the year.
Just butting in, hopefully not being rude - as a learner surfer in the not too distant past, I think the 'once they've got to the point of standing up' on unbroken waves is the key. If you are going to give the board to someone of less skill than that, then a 6ft something is not a suitable learner's board IMHO - its just a frustration. Dont forget how hopeless we are. On a 7ft board most learners will not catch a wave and, even if they do, they won't pop up fast enough, and the few that can do both will probably either pop up in the wrong place or fall off within a second. Or perl. Anything under 7ft makes it even worse.

But once a person can reasonably regularly pop up and go across the wave, even if not doing anything else, then while a large but (just) under 7ft board will be challenging, it wont be a totally worthless experience. The wave count will probably be way down but the effort isnt wasted.

Remember that stuff you - as skilled surfers - do as second nature without even thinking is stuff that learners dont even know they are meant to be doing or, at best, have no idea how to do. A high volume wide board for someone used to 19inch width and 30l is completely different to someone used to a 9ft 23 inch mal.

I don't think you can come up with a board you want with one that is suitable for a total beginner or someone still at 'white water' level. (of course, if the learner is 12 or something, then its a different story).

FWIW, my experience with mid sized boards (which is what I now surf) is that the pulled in tail seems to be easier to turn, with harder rails at the back (as you have thought of). The Grant Miller powerglide or Takayama scorpion style (both of which are very different to the McT scooter!). I'm not sure you need a fat tail with a longer board; although obviously MCoy etc disagree. The pulled in tail does mean you surf the board more like a full sized mal (move foot back over the tail and pivot) than perhaps how you surf shorter boards.

alakaboo
Duke Status
Posts: 15520
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by alakaboo » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:32 pm

ctd wrote:Just butting in, hopefully not being rude
Not sure that even registers on the Realsurf scale of rudeness, but don't worry about it.

All your points are valid, you've expressed yourself eloquently, discussed surfboard design and you used punctuation. I'm not sure this is the right forum for you...


Caveman, if you are getting a Surfblanks blank get something midrange, the Pink's are very light and probably not what you want if you aren't sure of what you're doing.
I think I've got a board made from that blank, I can take some measurements if you like. It isn't the shape you were after, it is an eggy thing but it might give you some pointers. It doesn't have quite as much run as I expected, but it surfs pretty well off the tail.

I also think ctd was right about the tail. Once you get into midlengths you generally want to make them move responsive rather than going for pure speed generation, you can get away with some really pulled in tails due to the acreage and rail length.

Beanpole
Huey's Right Hand
Posts: 26887
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:21 am
Location: Counting fins

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by Beanpole » Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:15 am

Width and thickness of the tail can be a big issue. Think about tail rocker rather than nose rocker. A 6'6" wide fat board with a big tail is not going to work as a single fin unless you have a big fat fin to go with it. Better to go a little longer and sleaker. Just my thoughts on the subject. I mean its one thing to turn, its another to do a turn. I tend to think a learner wants a board that will turn nicely rather than easily or rapidly. In fact a board that turns too rapidly or goes too fast is the last thing a learner wants.

User avatar
Cpt.Caveman
barnacle
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:13 am
Location: Sydney - Everywhere and nowhere.

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by Cpt.Caveman » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:07 pm

Good suggestions, thanks guys.

I'm starting to lean more towards the 7'5" blank now:

Might shave off some thickness through the middle flattening the rocker through the guts a little, plus take in a little bit of the outline 2' from the nose to 2' from the tail. Just sightly, but it will straigthen the rail-line a little through the middle for speed, trim and also prevent twitchyness for a learner.

That will keep the tail a little more narrow and keep the tail rocker for turning off the tail.

Image
Davros wrote:Ego saved - surfing experience rubbish.

ledge71
Local
Posts: 425
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:25 pm
Location: Sunny Coast QLD & a PNG Island:)

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by ledge71 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:37 pm

Woohooo, board design, my favourite!!

A whole lot of great points in all the above replies! As a home shaper of bout 70+ boards I'm also no expert but I do think I've come along way since board number two! So here we go...

My first point is this. Make the board you want for yourself. You say you want your beginner friends to try it out for some fun but unless you're actually going to give them the board then don't even bring them into the calculation. What you're making will be fine for them to have a little play on. It's not theirs for good so don't worry about it.

Keep the design simple. If you want to start playing with the bottom I'd do a single concave. They're easy to do and they work. You can buy blanks with the rocker almost perfect for what you're after which cuts down a lot of hard work.

I often tell people to start with a pre-cut-shape. I know it's not the whole "designing yourself" thing but it's a great way to start and get a feel for the sanding, shaping your rails, understanding the rockers and concaves. Once you've mastered that you can go onto the straight blank off the shelf. Not saying you should go this way, but it's a good start up alternative (also you save on tools).

Beginners Boards.... My biggest point here is that if you're a beginner then go and buy a shitty second hand board off ebay or your local shop. As mentioned above, once you master getting up and riding across the wave you'll be wanting something better. A big mistake is (especially for kids) bigger, fuller is better. When you end up making a board for kids (because everyone will ask you too once they know you're having a crack) remember this; most kids can stand up in a few weeks of practicing (don't waste your time or their money making them big boards, buy a crappy one). Next minute they're ready to start turning and even more importantly, duck diving. Ever seen a 40kg grom try and duck dive the white water on a 6'6x21x3' single fin? Ain't going to happen, which means they lose interest and confidence pretty quickly. Once they've learnt the basics then make them something smaller, lighter with more movability. Remember, they're not old like us!!!

And last but not least! Who cares what you make and what size it ENDS UP being. That's part of the frustration and fun! That's what makes you do board No.3...and 4... and....

Oh, and try and do a design or good paint job if you can. When I started making boards I always tried to do a design that would attract those "learners" on ebay. This way I could always sell the board for under $200.00 (sometimes more) and make enough money to buy more blanks, glass etc.

Post pics!
Attachments
049.jpg
First Ever Board (Sold for $350.00)
LH001j.jpg
Finished Last Week
Everyone has to pay their reef taxes!

ledge71
Local
Posts: 425
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:25 pm
Location: Sunny Coast QLD & a PNG Island:)

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by ledge71 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:40 pm

wingnut2443 wrote: I'm thinking of doing another one with that same design, put go the fin box option with side plugs ...
Come on mate...let's see some photos of it!
Inspire us!
:-D-:
Everyone has to pay their reef taxes!

User avatar
Cpt.Caveman
barnacle
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:13 am
Location: Sydney - Everywhere and nowhere.

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by Cpt.Caveman » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:20 pm

Thanks heaps for the tips guys, thats great!

I think I'll go with the 7'5" blank, shape a diamond tail, take 1/4" or so off the width 2' from the tail and 2' from the nose to straighten the rail through the middle, take about 1/4" off the guts to flatten the rocker a little but also to take down some thickness.

Now, I've decided I will shape vee into the thing, but I'd really appreciate some tips on how to go about it. My questions are...

1) Where should I start the vee? (e.g. just before the fin? where the outline curve starts to accelerate?)

2) How best to shape it? My early idea is to shape the vee after I've finished the rocker and outline, but before shaping the rails. That way I can make pencil marks on the square rail on the side based on how deep I want it at the very tail, and then draw the vee depth up the side to show how deep to cut. What should I use? A planer first? Just the surform?

3) How much vee? 1/8? 1/4? I have no idea.
Davros wrote:Ego saved - surfing experience rubbish.

User avatar
Cpt.Caveman
barnacle
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:13 am
Location: Sydney - Everywhere and nowhere.

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by Cpt.Caveman » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:52 am

Bugger it, I'm going to take the 7'0" blank and shape some finless beast. I'll whack a single fin box in the middle which will only get used when someone wants to use it to learn how to surf.

Tail will be wide, squareish and heavily channeled. Rails will be round up front but bladey in the back. Widepoint forward. That is all.

This one I think I'll pay some poor sod to glass it for me. Think Derek Hynd strangeness...
Davros wrote:Ego saved - surfing experience rubbish.

alakaboo
Duke Status
Posts: 15520
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by alakaboo » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:37 pm

Can't decide what to write here:

On the one hand, I think it'll probably be a total dog of a board without a fin in it. Based partly on my experience trying to surf a 7'6" 70s style single fin without a fin.

But at the same time, if I was ever going to shape, it'd be to try some totally batshit crazy stuff where I wouldn't be worried about the fact that I'd just managed to shape a shittier version of a board that was already available from a proper shaper.

Thought your previous idea was better.

alakaboo
Duke Status
Posts: 15520
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by alakaboo » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:11 am

I do play around with Aku a little bit when I'm discussing ideas with my shaper, Wingnut, but then I get them to make it.
And he ignores all my stupid ideas and makes something that actually works.

User avatar
Davros
Snowy McAllister
Posts: 8582
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:46 pm

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by Davros » Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:04 pm

Gotta have some sort of idea before you start attacking the foam right?

User avatar
Cpt.Caveman
barnacle
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:13 am
Location: Sydney - Everywhere and nowhere.

Re: Looking for ideas for my new home-shaped board

Post by Cpt.Caveman » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:00 pm

alakaboo wrote:Thought your previous idea was better.
FU MAN! :D

This thing will be shaped purely for my own finless enjoyment. I asked myself - "what will I have the most fun on?" and to be honest with myself "THE FINLESS BEAST" just blurted out with spit. I have a MORE Fish Finger which is made to work best with long tiny D shaped keel fins about 1" tall. I've been having a pretty amazing time on it and have been taking it out almost every surf.

What I want to try is to see if I can shape the board to hold a rail completely finless, Derek Hynd style. Hooking channels near the rail, low rails, etc.

I'll whack a fin box or plugs in there somewhere just in case someone is going to use it to learn how to surf (which will be pretty much never). Its going to be widish and squarish in the tail for a long straight rail line, perfect stability for a learner, but perfect for a big long rail-line for hold.

See, the original idea is still there, I just took some acid since
Davros wrote:Ego saved - surfing experience rubbish.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests