thick rails compared to thin

[go hard]

Am shaping a blank atm and normally I ride a larger board that's about 6'6'.
Because this board is going to be about 6' 1'. I want to keep it thicker so it will paddle better and give better float, so I need to know whats the difference performance wise regarding boxier rails compared to thin rails.
Please any info would be gr8

[Natho]

Firstly a boxy rail is not always a thick rail. Boxy refers more to the shape of the rail, not how thick it is. So you can have a low boxy rail.

Thinner rails will penetrate the water more for better hold and to a degree better control on the rail. A rail that is too thin however will penetrate the water too much and bog you down. Thinner rails tend to work better at speed or in sucky waves.

A thicker rail will sit higher in the water and recover out of a turn quicker, but a rail that is too thick will sit too high in the water causing a lack of control and bite when on the rail. In general a thicker rail is more suited to slower, smaller waves.

A medium rail is a good all rounder if you are not sure.

To complicate things more it also comes down to the thickness of the board and the foil needed to 'fit the rail'. So if you have a board that is thick in the middle, but you try and add a thinner, lower rail you would need to roll the deck a fair bit to 'fit' the rail. This in turn would totally change the overall foil of the board to a board that is more rolled on the deck as an example.

Given that your board is already going to be thicker, and it is a scaled down version of your normal board I would suggest keeping some volume in your rail will be a much safer bet for you. I assume it is for smaller waves anyway?.
Im no expert, that is just my own brief take on things. There are people on here who will know more than me so take on board all feedback you get (no pun).

[Natho]

Another element is board construction:
I have found changing the rail volume can help balance out some of the cons in EPS/ Epoxy boards.
Im riding a couple at the moment where we have gone much finer rails to balance the extra float/ pop you get with these types of boards. Seems to help fix the water penetration issues you can get if you leave too much volume in the rail. It is working an absolute treat. The boards are just so much more responsive too.

I've also got one of those super deep concave Maurice Cole things at the moment with really low, fine rails. Seems to really compliment the super lift you get out of these boards. The rails feel amazing and I have certainly not had any of the rail catching issues people have talked about. The finer rails also seem to give a really nice carve arc, like the board has a round tail back end (but it doesn't).

[Cpt.Caveman]

I've also got one of those super deep concave Maurice Cole things at the moment with really low, fine rails. Seems to really compliment the super lift you get out of these boards. The rails feel amazing and I have certainly not had any of the rail catching issues people have talked about. The finer rails also seem to give a really nice carve arc, like the board has a round tail back end (but it doesn't).

So, we all know what NC thinks of these, but whats your verdict?

How does it compare to your usual shortboard?

[Natho]

See my verdict on the Ask Carroll thread.
Have only ridden it a few times. Verdict so far is leaning towards the insane category. Have only ridden it in smaller waves though. It is a shorter, wider smaller wave board. Not a pro tow as such but certainly out of the same mould. Can't wait too get back on it.

[pridmore]

started dabbling in lower rails after riding a freshly made MP fangtail replica, which has the old school low pinchy rails like most had back in the day...they feel really good thru turns and am planning on doing a few more shorties with these rails on them instead of standard boxy fuller rails which I mostly use ( on small wave boards with more volume- softer Sunny Coast spring-summer waves )...everyone who picks the replicas up, always comments on the rails and how different they are to todays standard...good to borrow from the old and blend with the new....

[diggerdickson]

natho, I hear what you are saying about lower rails on a eps board. That is exactly what Huei has done for me. Ive never riden a board with such low rails and it felt wrong. Yet once in the water im convinced that its the way to go with eps. The board just comes alive on the rail and you can really feel the rail bite when you lay it over and give it some.

Because of this feeling dont think I can ever go back to poly agian with standard rails.

[Natho]

Yeh that's pretty much how it happened for me. A got this EPS board with these super fine rails and I was like 'this is insane, I'm going to bury half the board'. But once I surfed it I have never looked back. More control on the rail and the board holds better when it's a bit steeper. Too much foam in the rail with EPS and the board seems to want to pop and recover out of a turn prematurely. The board can want to skip out with the slightest surface bump.

Even with astandard PU board I'm finding I can now go a bit lower in the rail. You just get used to that feeling.

[diggerdickson]

Because of the extra bite of the low rail nath, its got me thinking about fins. Ive got the cant at 4 degree and the whole different feeling gets ya mind rolling on those fin things dont ya reckon

[Natho]

Fin placement is a whole other mind fk. I prefer just to leave it to the experts otherwise you can start over thinking a board. Also I'm no expert myself on fin placement.

[Davros]

I have shaped a couple of boards and the best advice I got from a shaper was don't get to cute with fin placement, point the side fins towards the nose up the board a bit for a loser board and the same but a thump length back for a stiffer board. Keep the rail medium and make sure the nose is completed as its a sure sign of a lazy back yard shaper buy having a thick nose. Tail optional but try not to sharpen it up to much.

[diggerdickson]

ive got the 4s system in my latest board from huei and its amazing how much difference the toe in can make, its doing my head a bit trying to get it perfect. But fun experiementing. Ive worked out 4 degree with a set of quads ive got and thinking 6 degree cant with the thurster set, but sorry im changing topic so I will shut it.

[packa]

ive got the 4s system in my latest board from huei and its amazing how much difference the toe in can make, its doing my head a bit trying to get it perfect. But fun experiementing. Ive worked out 4 degree with a set of quads ive got and thinking 6 degree cant with the thurster set, but sorry im changing topic so I will shut it.

Are you talking toe in, or fin cant?

Trouble with 4 way system is needing to get a whole new set of fins. Which, then also brings in a whole new set of variables.

Has anyone tried different toe in and or cant on either side? More or less on heel than toe side?

[diggerdickson]

Talking about both packa. So far ive found I like 4 degree cant with quad set up best. Ive got a set of tri fins I will try on 6 degree when the swell warrants it. Want to try them in quality bigger stuff.

As for toe in Im slowly moving this back to what most would consider normal. Moving fractions at a time till I come across what I feel is perfect. At the moment the tail is to squirrelly but that's cause fins to far in, as I said fractions at a time.

As for fins IM blessed with someone who can make them so never need to worry bout buying from 4s. Just will get em custom made. Ive found perfect quad set as shaper got it right straight up on those fins. Bloody nailed it.

Cant wait for solid stuff to come my way and try tri fins. Then start mucking around with them till I get the right feeling im after.

[Roy_Stewart]

With these low/fine rails ( presumably you chaps are talking about the middle of the board since the tail tails are usually very thin anyway) what sort of radius from the apex down are you using e.g. on the MC concave boards?

[Roy_Stewart]

Thanks, that's a bit smaller in radius ( judging by the approximate height of the apex) than I'm using, I've been using an 18mm high apex and about the same in radius.