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Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:08 am
by alakaboo
Depends on the board and the wave it is intended for.
Round-rounded pin for good wave board, diamond pin for longboard, rounded square or diamond for summer board.
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:20 pm
by diggerdickson
for my simple mind I prefer a round tail or a rounded pin, nothing more, nothing less. Suits how I surf
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:31 pm
by Natho
Rounded pin for good waves, round tail in a wide tail board and squash as an all rounder in average waves.
Diamonds tend to work well in quads in that the centre point in the tail gives a bit of a centre feel to the board, bit like a round tail or rounded pin but with a bit more area in the tail.
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:55 pm
by pirate_agenda
depends what the board is for.
Remember:
- curves grip (control)
- straight edges release (faster)
- taking volume away makes the tail sink and grab
so....
- for a good wave board i like rounded pins for control
- a swallow works well on a wide tailed outline to regain some control lost due to the width of the tail
- squash, chops and diamonds are fastest for small wave boards.
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:23 pm
by Natho
What about those silly bat tails. No one has mentioned them yet.
IMO the feeling of jamming a good rounded pin at speed in a bottom turn can't be beaten in good waves. The way they hold is great. A curve in the back end may slow you down a bit due to the drag, but at the end of the day rocker is going to have more effect on speed than tail shape.
Never been a fan of swallow tails. Possibly I just need to ride more of them. In wide tail boards I have found swallows can stick a bit too much for my liking and for some reason I just don't like those points at each end. While swallows can be snappy in such boards I find a round tail aids rail to rail transitions and just frees the board up. Round tails tend to turn and carve better to me in wide boards and make such boards more versatile.
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:47 pm
by OddaP
Squash, rounded square on my every day boards. In good waves on boards designed for them a round or rounded pin. Had a swallow tail years ago and really liked it. I don't really like a round tail on my every day board.
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:51 pm
by diggerdickson
wingnut2443 wrote:Natho wrote: ... at the end of the day rocker is going to have more effect on speed than tail shape ...
Yes ... but ...
I find the different tail shapes give me a different feel, and the better it feels, that is having control to turn and the release when I want it ... the better I enjoy the way it surfs ...
I think the whole "speed" issue (i.e. quads vs thrusters, or the "modern planing hulls', etc ...) misses the point >><< ... I think it is more about what is controllable and useable and that for me depends on the type of wave I'm surfing ...
From reading the posts above it seems the responses so far support this theory ...
I guess that's why it is hard to have a magic board surf great in anything from 1' summer surf dribble to overhead peeling point waves ... or is it ...
Are we maybe demanding more from boards and don't want to accept an overall all round average performance that wold come from a comprise in having a board that we can surf across such a large variation in waves?
ahh, but there is wingnut, a nice pulled in round tail
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:23 am
by ric_vidal
rounded pin or pin, irrespective
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:55 pm
by BA
I've ridden a few rounded pins, but hadn't really ridden a round tail. Picked up a 6'0 round tail recently and love it. Ridden it in everything from good quality 4-5ft to 1-2ft dribble. It's become my all-rounder.
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:39 pm
by pirate_agenda
wingnut2443 wrote:Natho wrote: ... at the end of the day rocker is going to have more effect on speed than tail shape ...
I think the whole "speed" issue (i.e. quads vs thrusters, or the "modern planing hulls', etc ...) misses the point >><< ... I think it is more about what is controllable and useable and that for me depends on the type of wave I'm surfing ...
disagree with you there. generating speed is one of the most important things in surfing. there is always ways to design control into low drag, efficient planing boards, but there is nothing worse than a slug of a board, no matter how controllable the board is. Lack of speed is the number one cause of missing sections, bogging turns and most other acts of surfing kookery. agree there needs to be balance for sure.
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:59 pm
by swvic
I reckon most drive to get around/through sections is rider generated. Sure the board has to respond to that front foot acceleration, but most made by good shapers do, don't they? If yes, it then comes down to hold and manouvereability. You want hold, go a round/round pin/pin in that order. Go reverse for manouvreability round/round square/square. Swallows - had a few, but fcuked if I've ever really figured them out. Bats? Never surfed one, same with diamonds
PS I can drive a board much harder forehand, no matter the tail shape
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:51 pm
by diggerdickson
yes wingnut, nailed it in one, or the other option is more money than you can spend and just get someone else to build you a quiver, and keep building, till yourve found the perfect shapes for you, for me I would prefer a bay, much more fun that way.
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:05 am
by Biggun
Iggy nailed it.
i'd rather sit at home stroking my rounded pin and dreaming about long period goundswell, than fret about the perfect summertime board...
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:17 am
by purple pyramids
rounded-pin with flyer. great for quickly pulling into tight barrels and late drops on beach breaks.
i also have a diamond tail, flat rocker quad for smaller waves.
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:28 pm
by pirate_agenda
wingnut2443 wrote:pirate_agenda wrote:wingnut2443 wrote:Natho wrote: ... at the end of the day rocker is going to have more effect on speed than tail shape ...
I think the whole "speed" issue (i.e. quads vs thrusters, or the "modern planing hulls', etc ...) misses the point >><< ... I think it is more about what is controllable and useable and that for me depends on the type of wave I'm surfing ...
disagree with you there. generating speed is one of the most important things in surfing. there is always ways to design control into low drag, efficient planing boards, but there is nothing worse than a slug of a board, no matter how controllable the board is. Lack of speed is the number one cause of missing sections, bogging turns and most other acts of surfing kookery. agree there needs to be balance for sure.
Interesting discussion ...
Yes, speed important, but at the expensive of being able to go vertically and control the board through the top turn?
Guess it depends on the waves and style of surfing ... :?
That's way we need a bay in our backyards to build the quiver we want
i've got one under my house and about 20 boards, still always want another one!
back to the speed thing, I guess my point is when designing a board my thought process is:
1. What kind of waves is the board going to be ridden in?
2. What is the best way to generate usable speed for the surfer's ability in these types of waves without using volume as a crutch?
3. What level of hold, control and release do I want for the conditions and surfer's ability, and how should the design be altered accordingly.
Same board in a round tail and a swallow tail. What to expect?
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:46 pm
by JET01
Digging up and oldie here.
I've got a 6'0 x 19.6 x 2.5 31.3L PCC round tail short board. there's probably a pic floating around on my quiver thread post from last April when it was new. Love it as a quad with medium reactor fronts or Large AM and performer quad rears. Don't mind it as a thruster with Large FCS2 PC AM fins.
There's a board on Ebay at the moment that is pretty much a carbon copy of my board 6'0 x 19.5 x 31.8L (i know i know, volume weirdos, thats all the info in the ad) but with a swallow tail and no quad option.
Two boards pretty close everything same same except for a different tail shape. One swallow tail, one round tail.
Where would you use each board?
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:08 pm
by buddy
I don't know if I'm making the right choice but my gut feel would be the swallow at a fast down the line point. Round tail when the wave energy is a bit stronger and toward the beach rather than down the line.
Just an image in my head.
I imagine both would work in anything though.
Re: Tail shape ... what do you prefer?
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:14 pm
by alakaboo
Fin setup will probably make more difference than tail shape.
The swallow may give you a straighter rail line, depending how wide the swallow is.