how long till- you can't buy a locally built board

[pridmore]

yeah, is a funny situation coz the Aussie ones are over double the price, be hypocritical of me but you can see how people do the Asian thing as much as it sucks, reckon its here to stay, its a dog eat dog world and if ya gotta feed the family, sometimes people just gotta do what ya can to make ends meet.....dont think i'll do the tees at all, its one thing to have an opinion but another to make tees that tell everyone, hard industry, lucky I love makin boards and can live on 2 minute noodles....
people will buy what they want anyway.....

[Beanpole]

With all the alternative shapes out there I reckon its an exciting time too. You can make a name for yourself quickly if you are extreme.
Quality will sell. Making a living out of shaping is a great dream but its still business.

Hope those two minute noodles are aussie made

[pridmore]

no they are made in China, I am helping to support a skilled noodle man and his family, I also bought a camera from him....

[Chillin]

Surfboard manufacturing is an industry that has no formal training or certification attached to it and no structured management of industry standards. Anyone can start a surfboard manufacturing business and start designing (sic) and building boards. Most (all?) shapers start out will no formal training and are guided through their formative period by so called local shapers with no regard to any formal quality standards, no conformance with OH&S standards, no period of apprenticeship or any form of certificate of competance whatsoever. IMHO they have been their own worst enemy and the fact that there are now folk in the non surfing manufacturing powerhouse countries, who have probably no idea how to surf of even what the board is for, could have been avoided by the simple installation of a trade certificate and an award system similar to that of other specialised industries.
A sticker that read:
Made in China: THIS SURFBOARD MEETS OR EXEEDS AUSTRALIAN DESIGN RULE SI0078 AND HAS BEEN MANUFACTURED UNDER LICENCE TO FRED BLOGGS (Master shaping licence 220299000). CERTIFICATION NO.112237. WARNING! This board is a copy of a licensed design, any attempt to illegaly repoduce this design without licence certification will result in prosecution.
For fully customised and personalised designs, please see www.fredbloggssurf.com

Surely this would go a long way towards allaying the arguments against overseas manufacturing concerns.

[Trev]

^^^^^^^ That link doesn't work Chiilin.................

[Chillin]

Hmmm, maybe Fred went bust...bloody imports!

[mustkillmulloway]

great post chillin......interesting take on things

while courses are around for marketing ( like we need more ppl marketing surfin ) in the surf industry, no formal course is for board construction

i found it exactly the same in boat building

as far as the sticker idea.....the chinchesse are well know for flouting any and every trade mark and registered design ....in a away...global surfwankers are actually helping by seeing the designer gets a cut as opposed too the chincheese just totally ripping a design off

i wonder what the enrolements would be for a surfboard builders course?

it's not a job for anyone....it's bloody hard work....i wouldn't say i hate mucking around with boards,

but as a industry.....i rate working in it just below a career as a sex worker

you get f.ucked over just as much but

far more money in being a s.lut

prehaps, with a formal education course.....that could be the catylist ( yes i'm funny ) too clean the industry up and make it more attractive too ppl as a career

i really believe .....the industry needs come terms on pricing ( $120 a foot is VERY< VERY fair pricing , still cheap for what u get $10 a inch...shit missus owes me $90 each root )

this cut throat cheap boards deal isn't good for anyone....a uniform pricing....would go a long way making the industry...not just profitable...but working towards new techs in construction and more r&d on design

boards would sell on fuction rather than cost

it would also restore some value too the second hand board market

i'm raving on....sorry i just hate seeing guys who have spent there lifes making me the best boards.....go broke....cause they can't compete with shit asian imports

[bohdidontsurf]

thinking of doing a t shirt print to support this stuff , any ideas for the words of print ???
- " DONT BUY ASIAN MADE SURFBOARDS " ( bit harsh sounding, plus these asains just wanna make a buck too and feed their kids
- " SUPPORT AUSSIE SHAPERS " , "BUY LOCAL BOARDS " ???? dunno, maybe it is just too forecful and arrogant to do it...maybe " BUY ASIAN CHEAPIES AT YOUR OWN RISK/PERIL " .....

" DONT BUY ASIAN MADE SURFBOARDS " so that would only apply to boards made in Asia not other parts of the world like Cali, Hawaii, etc..?? What about boards made by Asians in Australia? would that count? What about Australians using some inputs that are made in Asia? would that count....slogans like that thinly veiled racism in my view, unecessary and not good marketing. What about Aussie shapers that still do hand mades but also license shapes to tufflite, GSI etc that are made in Asia? would that count? Time to face it, we are a global market place and we are going to have asian products of all kinds come to our shores...ever looked on the tag of a Ripcurl or Oneil wetty? They are made in Thailand....thats in Asia isnt it? T shirt should read...buy something of someone you like and trust....regardless of where it comes from. Thats why I buy boards off JD....

[Chillin]

How about the surf boutique, like this? http://www.surfculture.com.au/category/channell/page/4/
It seems to me that people have the money to spend, thats why McTavish charges high (ish) prices. Make them right and market them well and the money and people will come.
I'm pretty sure boatbuilding is a trade certificate, its called a shipwright. I have a mate who's one and he is pretty well skilled in fibreglassing, timber boat building and aluminium craft too.
Local shapers will always have no coin because too few of their customers have no coin either, its a viscious circle of mates rates, lack of target market planning and a complete lack of a reasonable working model and business plan. Prids is the first to admit he does it for the love. Its the same reason I am no longer the owner of a M'cycle shop, too many mates rates deals will send you broke. At the end of the day if you want to succeed in business then you need to be a hard nosed businessman and charge what it takes for you to be there next time they want another one.

[Yuke Hunt]

You are pretty close to the mark (no not you Mr More) the mark ... as in the lack of a business plan etc.

Now boatbuilding may have a trade certificate to hang alongside the bankruptcy notice ... but one can draw a parallel with the two industries.
Apart from Bill Barry C ... who bought and sold and bought and buried Mariner at Mona Vale ... did the same with Grand Banks and eventually Riviera ... very few other commercial boat builders have escaped the clutches of receivers in one form or another over the years.

In times of economic hardship ... businesses with flawed planning or over extended lines of credit are the first to feel the pinch ... often resulting in downsizing ... restructuring or foreclosure. The surf industry ... especially the surfboard manufacturing side of things has always been very loose in structure. So its only natural to see a few of these guys hit the wall. It unfortunate and sad ... but its also a reality that an organisation that only just made ends meet in the good times would hit the wall when things got a bit tough financially.

I don't buy imported surfboards ... why would you when there a better options to be had locally.

There will always be a high standard foam mowers in OZ ... occasionally some will go down the drain ... thats life ... I doubt that the good ones will stop shaping though.

One thing that isn't helping our local shapers is the strength of the Aussie dollar ... a lot of the better known brands rely on exporting ... this market has dried up significantly recently ... but funnily enough material costs have gone up drastically when theoretically they should have fallen.

Now with news just in ... a couple of very reputable shapers on the Goldie will be closing their doors in the not to distant future ... first class shapers ... years of experience ... times are tough ... with or without the imports.

[mah]

hey its not just china. tawain and where ever else it srarts with the raw suppliers there is no protection for any one in the board industry when anyone can blow in off the street and buy materials for the same price as the guys who do this for a full time job not just to make a few extra bucks and yeah maybe charge the right price $450 $550 thats just bullshit.hand over a abn and see how long those prices last

[mustkillmulloway]

a lot really interesting posts

guys this is realsurf...dumb it down a bit

i guess i have confuses the water with saying guys going broke

from my first hand knowledge....it's not shutting up shop cause they brankrupt

more sick working for fu.ck all reward

mah makes a great point....about suppliers....feeding the backyard trade

if u followed chillins idea....maybe they could one day only sell too who have passed board building courses ....and than still sell anybody at a higher $$$ margain

surfboards need some uniform pricing structure ( $10 a inch board...still too cheap but a good start)

it must be disheartening for someone find there board after a month in prime condition is worth $200 max...unless they find a sucker

a standard pricing on boards would also ( i think :? ) level out 2nd hand boards value

[Beerfan]

That'll never happen in regards to materials fong. Imagine if you went to bunnings to get structural pine and were told you could only buy it if you were a carpenter? I know i'd go f&king ballistic. Don't forget, buying in bulk ( just about anything ) will reduce cost. I also doubt someone with a business to run would care if the bloke he was selling stuff to was a qualified shaper/carpenter/tiler/sparky, he's just happy for the sale.


And standard pricing on boards can never happen. 2 x 6'1's, but what if one is 4x4 pro clone and one is 4x64 ? More glass more cash. Also, think about it, if you were a 40 year veteran, and your boards were well respected, would you be happy if it was the same price as the new guy down the road, with 2 years experience??. And as a customer, if you can get a jim banks fish for the same price as a who flung dung special, which would you want to buy??

[Beerfan]

Personally, i think boards are cheap. FFS if you surf twice a week, that's 104 surfs a year. 600 dollar board cost you 6 bucks a surf. After 2 years, 3 bucks a surf, and so on, you get the picture. I know blokes who are into cars. One in particular spent 15k just on a gearbox FFS, how many boards is that??

[seethesea75]

Great thread. Many good points.

My belief is that the local shapers have not been out priced but out marketed also. The real reason Asian boards have proliferated is a viscous circle with no easy solution. Peoples buying habits have changed, people want instant gratification. They troll the net scouring the information they can find to choose what to buy before they head to the shop all cashed up. This leads to the retail / manufacturer relationship.

Surfboard shapers have a long history of screwing the retailers that supported them and would like to charge more but can't when you can simply go back to the manufacturer after seeing it in the shop and he will sell it to you $150 cheaper than the shop he supplies just up the road. The retailer eventually gets sick of it and dumps the label. On top of that the price was never allowed to get higher as there was always old mate or someone ready to sell it cheaper from the factory, an emerging label or whatever. As the prices stayed low the retail margin shrunk, this pushed the surfboard guys to the bottom of the payments list. So now you had shapers supplying shops and making $80 margin and waiting 120 days for the money. And we go back to the start, any wonder the shaper sold to the public as he got his money now and got more than the wholesale rate to the store. Still following?

The Asian importers read the market, provided the information to a 'regular' surfer and supplied product to suit. They read about there new board in the week at work on the computer, located a retailer on the same site and headed down on Saturday morning and got the exact board you already decided upon. Forums like this play a major part in these decisions also. Funnily enough, the customers work full time and has a good disposable income and was happy to pay $650 for his Asian made board. The retailer is stoked as he made some money from the transaction and there was no factory to undercut the guy. Next year he increases his Asian stock.

Meanwhile the shaper up the road has less orders than ever and blames cheap Asian imports for ruining his business. Fact is he failed to evolve and was used to a time where people accepted his bad service as they had no option. The retailer is selling his 'cheap' Asian imports at a higher price than he is charging out the factory door. See a problem emerging?

So..... What's the solution?

Get with the program boys. People can't buy from you if they don't know you exist. It has never been cheaper to promote your boards with Social networking and DIY websites for $150. How about some info about your boards? It's not about how bad Asian boards are but how good yours are. People need a reason to buy your products. While you're at it, why not look at improving your boards, PU/PE is not the only option. Find a way to make your boards last longer or go better and charge more for it. Be confident, you deserve it.

One thing that's for sure, if you sit around waiting for people to find you and buy a board whinging about the end of the world that's coming it surely is. People will go broke for sure, but I'd argue that many of them would have anyway. Sharper tacks that relate to the market better would have picked their fruit.


'And that's all I got to say about that' - Forrest Gump.

[mustkillmulloway]

welcome too forums seethesea, great post, its when ppl share stuff like you wrote it makes wading tho all the shit in these forums worthwhile

notei still reserve the right post a lot shit on these forums

now...a friendly debate

. The retailer is selling his 'cheap' Asian imports at a higher price than he is charging out the factory door. See a problem emerging?

saw poxy asian imports for sale in noosa for $399 today....aimed squarly at the backpacker market

so they are under cutting too the hilt

everyones hurting in the current market

[seethesea75]

welcome too forums seethesea, great post, its when ppl share stuff like you wrote it makes wading tho all the shit in these forums worthwhile

notei still reserve the right post a lot shit on these forums

now...a friendly debate

. The retailer is selling his 'cheap' Asian imports at a higher price than he is charging out the factory door. See a problem emerging?

saw poxy asian imports for sale in noosa for $399 today....aimed squarly at the backpacker market

so they are under cutting too the hilt

everyones hurting in the current market

Thanks for the welcome Mulloway.

Yes good point about the $399 boards for the backpacker. I guess I was referring more to the mainstream or actual surfing market. This is what I would term regular recreational or intermediate surfer buying one or two boards per year. The backpackers have always been on the hunt for the used Mini Mal or larger used surfboard from shops. There were and still are to my knowledge local manufacturers specializing in supplying this bottom end cheaper mini mal type market, it's a market that most local manufacturers have never addressed or been able to supply. A Backpacker will not spend $650 on a board. If you never had it you can't lose it.

IMHO retailers bringing in these boards direct from China has had an effect but it has really only affected the bottom end. It's a fairly small market in the scheme of things so if you were a local guy targeting the bottom end you are probably in trouble. Stores like Dripping Wet in Sydney etc make a killing from this stuff though.

My rant is more about the companies that have far exceeded the effects to most local manufacturers of any cheap $399 boards is the companies with an act. Surftech, GSI, Firewire, Boardworks etc etc. Boards made in Asia that are replacing the volume of the market in places that sell the most boards being major surfboard retailers.

Hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.

[mustkillmulloway]

i got u the first time but thanku for elaborating

a mate mine ( who rips) just got a brand new 6' 4 on the crime ( goldy) coast for $299



and....it hurts me say this...good looking board, nice shape and spray, shit even the glassin is half decent....only half and rides it ok...but he can surf anything prick

at that price...u really can't blame ppl for buying pop outs

but at that price...i can't see the aussie builder surviving and if a new boards now $300....what price a second handy