EPS blanks

[tiger]

I know, they've been around for ages. But I've only recently got my hands on a couple.

Finished up doing my real work at about 4pm this arvo, and went into the shed to have a closer inspection of one of the blanks. Check thickness, and rocker etc, maybe hit it with the machine and see how it planes. Just get an idea of what it will entail.

But you know the deal, walked out of there a couple hrs later with a freshly shaped board.

Was a US blank, that was a beast of a thing at 6'8" and about 3 1/4" thick. Took a lot of mowing to get it down to the 2 3/8" I wanted, but luckily the rocker was close to right, so took little adjustment.

Stuff's not too bad to shape, better than I expected. Just need to seal it prior to glassing, which should help to hide the minor blemishes. Will probably just go the spackle route, just cos it sounds easier. Gibber has a drum of ATL epoxy, and is keen to have a go at the other blank.

I know that some of the other board makers on here have a load more experience than me with epoxy. So Ric, Huie, Josh et al, feel free to advise/lambast me.

[mustkillmulloway]

i like the tail

spray it red & green...go on...u know u want too

p.s how does the foam feel different too work with

[ric_vidal]

Don’t know too much, Tiger, just that a lot of the non-composite sandwich type ones I have seen and worked on look very second hand very quickly. That and yellowing epoxy despite all claims to the contrary, even if it is Kinetix and I understand a certain brand are. Haven’t seen a ‘production’ board yet where I thought the finish was that good.

Probably not worth the water-based problems and overall expense compared to a PU/PE. Think it is a comparative thing, Tiger. Will the time, cost and effort bring a board that is X% better?

Only interesting snippet I ever got, except from a multitude from Huie, was from Dick Van Straalen... he was of the opinion most (EPS) are glassed too light and if I understood correctly he was of the opinion they still ‘surfed’ light even if glassed heavily. Ring the man, he is extremely helpful.

Think Josh’s and H’s compsand type construction is a different ball game altogether, but there needs to be a market, and they come with their own set of issues.

FYI (Tiger, Gibber, MP and Huie), just did a small split-tail quad in PU with a deck consisting of 3/4 length 4oz-E, 2oz Innegra intermediate and 4oz-E over (polyester). Feels VERY firm, not light but not heavy either. Think my aim would be to go 2/2/2 or 4, but my limited experience with 2 suggests it can be a bugger to work with. Need a crash test dummy.

[tiger]

Thanks Ric. I'm really only doing this cos I can, just interested in a comparison of the 2 different combo's. Which will be about as apples v apples as possible. Would never consider them as a production board, due to their inherent problems.

I'll probably drop FCS plugs in them. And was wondering if the foam is stable enough to support the plugs, when installed the normal way? (with epoxy resin of course, I've read its good to do it in 2 or 3 pours)

I'm gunna glass it with 4oz bottom, 2 X 4oz deck. Gaz has some 2oz Innegra I wanna try on PU. With some slightly different application methods he has suggested, that should limit it's probs too.

Really enjoying being back in the bay, gunna have to sell some of my old boards to make room for more newies .

[huie]

timy i am running a thread on swaylocks at the moment

micheal ward will be the inndependant doer in this execise chriss ward the pilot

what you have already described is the best reason why i would not bother with the moulded e p s
as a hand shaper you wont go past the top tier urathane foam blowers here in your own country


what was the price of the blanks you have

when you have had enough of f###king around get a surfblank yellow low vol 1ml stringer
glass them strong nice board no spackle no covering up.
& remember the old fella is working on his formula all yhe time
if ya cant get one let me know


d v s knows what he is doing with e p s so i cast no shadow on him at all
josh has his stuff right but his is special

but when we get to a moulded blank shaped & glassed by hand
top end urathane is still the best way to go
my opinion of course.

[ric_vidal]

I'll probably drop FCS plugs in them. And was wondering if the foam is stable enough to support the plugs, when installed the normal way? (with epoxy resin of course, I've read its good to do it in 2 or 3 pours)

T-Tiger, seen/done FCS/Fusions/Futures with EPS/XPS... and yes epoxy can do some nasty things in volume. Think the addition of cabosil is beneficial (ex Munch) to the process.

Mate did an SUP with standard FCS and only did a partial fill, when he came back later in the day they were up to where you would normally fill and he thought I had topped it up. He was told by another SUPer that the epoxy seeps into the surrounding foam, I have seen nothing to support this in any repairs I have done on such craft.

May depend on the density of your EPS, but would have always thought some d-cell (or other) ala Josh would be of benefit to ANY material even PU. Also suspect good glass reinforcing around the surface level is integral to how strong a plug is.

[gibber]

The fin system is my biggest fear...
I would like to put a plug of PVC foam in the area of the plugs and maybe a rebated patch of glass as well.
Cabosil is used to thicken epoxy for use as a glue and is pretty good in this application too but the problem is that epoxy is prone to exothermic expansion and with Cabo mixed in, the heat build up is multiplied and the risk of deformation of the foam and of the plug rising out of the board is pretty high.
As for resin yellowing, the system i have is the same as the one Dick uses on his boards and he helped in the development of the resin (so Mick Bunker from ATL advises me) and the samples i have done and left in the sun for the last 4 months have stayed fairly clear too, but who knows what effect water and salt will have on this. I wanted a resin which would stay clear on a mast section which was laminated out of spruce and wrapped with a 4oz cloth, this was then clear coated with a polyurethane which has UV inhibitors in it so can't really use it as a good representation of yellowing unfortunately; though i'm happy to say it is looking good so far.
Do any of you guys use peel ply when using epoxy? In the boat game its mandatory as keying substrates for secondary bonding is a nightmare time killer. I also find it results in a lower resin:fibre ratio

[huie]

i take it you guys are going to have a go at making compsand

boatbuilding methods dont realy get ya to the end result

a t l r104 laminating epoxy is the industry std here in this country
boatcraft pacific is ok
why would you use a heavy moulded eps blank to build a composit no point

[gibber]

Nah just a normal glassed blank huie, composite would be fun to try but I'm too busy at the moment to do it properly. Maybe one day when things get a little less hectic.
Out of interest though, do you use a linear PVC foam like r63 airex or corecell? Or a standard PVC like klegecell, divynicell or airex?

[tiger]

The molded blanks were only for the std shape/layup procedure.

Will use much lighter stuff for cores when I explore sandwich construction.

edit: Gaz beat me to it.

[mustkillmulloway]

.

Finished up doing my real work at about 4pm this arvo,
.

wat u fed the chooks and walked the dogs on the same day

u must be buggered

[tigers]

The fin system is my biggest fear...
I would like to put a plug of PVC foam in the area of the plugs and maybe a rebated patch of glass as well.
Cabosil is used to thicken epoxy for use as a glue and is pretty good in this application too but the problem is that epoxy is prone to exothermic expansion and with Cabo mixed in, the heat build up is multiplied and the risk of deformation of the foam and of the plug rising out of the board is pretty high.
As for resin yellowing, the system i have is the same as the one Dick uses on his boards and he helped in the development of the resin (so Mick Bunker from ATL advises me) and the samples i have done and left in the sun for the last 4 months have stayed fairly clear too, but who knows what effect water and salt will have on this. I wanted a resin which would stay clear on a mast section which was laminated out of spruce and wrapped with a 4oz cloth, this was then clear coated with a polyurethane which has UV inhibitors in it so can't really use it as a good representation of yellowing unfortunately; though i'm happy to say it is looking good so far.
Do any of you guys use peel ply when using epoxy? In the boat game its mandatory as keying substrates for secondary bonding is a nightmare time killer. I also find it results in a lower resin:fibre ratio

If your eps is low density, just insert some scrap pu for the fin system . If it's high density , some q-cell in the epoxy for the install will make it easy sandable

[tiger]

Well Gaz (gibber) finally was able to come up last week, so we got the boards glassed. I finished them today, and I'll probably take mine for a run tmrw . It's been glassed a week, and I should probably wait longer, but I'm hopeless and can't resist.

Quite like epoxy resin, and think I will start using it on reg PU blanks. But EPS blanks were fiddly, don't think I'll spackle if using them again.

[gibber]

Fkn Epic Timmy!!
I'll be up one day this week for a wave.

[diggerdickson]

tiger, they look absolutely beautiful mate, beautiful

[ric_vidal]

Sorry T-Tiger but haven’t seen an epoxy yet that is not yellowing pretty quickly, ’cept them painted things... from ANY supplier including the favoured one from up that way. And white pigment apparently won’t help. Talk to H, not sure it is worth the expenditure.

Nice boards but I would expect no less.

[tiger]

Thanks Digger, and Ric.

It's more of a fun experiment for me, and an excuse to make myself a new board . I haven't weighed them, but they appear only fractionally lighter than what I can achieve with a burfords feather/same glass with polyester.

Will be trying some of the Surfblank yellows that Huie is fond of soon, hopefully.

I cheated a bit on these Ric. Wasn't happy with the finish after sanding, it was a bit mottled due to my dodgy spackelling. So did an acrylic clearcoat (protech) finish with a bit of white in it. I actually really like the finish. The translucent white protech, looks like a white resin tint. Rather than a harsh white paint, like surftechs. With the added bonus of maybe hiding any of the yellowing you mention.

[mustkillmulloway]

dropin and see josh and co @ sol

man...they have these WICKED stringer less things laying around ...super lite..plus

i'm hanging borrow one of em