anyone hear heard of Inegra?

[gibber]

A mate in the US has developed a new fabric for the ballistics industry and is now also being used in F1 cars
He gave me a sample about 6 months ago and Tiges and I tried it on a couple of boards but we had a few issues with things and we weren't all that happy with the final product. Yes it was strong and hard as hell but the weight seemed a tad in the wrong direction...(due to a few factors which should be easily sorted)
anyway, my mate was out last week and I gave him some more feedback from my perspective (boat building) and also some from a surfers perspective which he has taken on board and will hopefully sought out.

So, if any one is interested in a fabric that has similar properties to Aramid (kevlar) let me kow and i'll give you the guys details.

[huie]

innegra is being made in aus by colan
depends what you are trying to achive

[huie]

there are a few things different but i dont see weight as one??

[huie]

what i have posted up here is 2 oz 4 oz is not needed for me anyway

[gibber]

yeah I have been using some of the 2oz for a small light weight boat i have been building
Tiges and I used the 4oz which was the only stuff they had available back in April and yes Colan have been weaving it

So you have used it Huie? what did you think of it and did you use it with Epoxy or Poly?
did you use peel ply?
Do you mind if i pass on your feedback to my mate in the US?

For boats I think it has a wide range of applications but the surfboard side of things is a bit unknown for me, just wondered if anyone else had tried it

[ric_vidal]

Definitely on the agenda, but perhaps for a different application.

[Nick Carroll]

well tell us about it for chrissake

how does it compare with Kevlar, how does it fit into the Kevlar carbon mix, etc etc

I just tested a board with a layer of Innegra on the deck, seemed to make it extremely strong but not utterly dent-free, flex characteristics were impossible to discern given the board.

[huie]

well tell us about it for chrissake

how does it compare with Kevlar, how does it fit into the Kevlar carbon mix, etc etc

I just tested a board with a layer of Innegra on the deck, seemed to make it extremely strong but not utterly dent-free, flex characteristics were impossible to discern given the board.

well i have voiced my oppinion about workability as an industry use?

cosmetics it can come ok
used in the right places it will do the job as well as kevlar.
for me its the ride report that i am interested in so who better than you''
1 what foam was test board
2 was the innegra used on its own was it 2 oz or 4 oz
3 what was the apperance of the board when glassed
4 is it glassed with epoxy
5 if it is epoxy did it reach full cure

yes if the board is glassed light it will still get dents
but will be more impact resitant than any e glass
waiting for a full report nick.

[gibber]

Compared to aramid(Kevlar) and carbon it is a very cheap alternative - roughly 20% of the price
it has a lower density therefore when using say 2oz cloth in either e-glass, s-glass, carbon or Kevlar it will achieve a thicker laminate thickness. It has a lower modulus than carbon or Kevlar and less tensile and flexural stiffness by thickness- this however is less an issue when you take into account the extra thickness attained due to the lower density of the inegra fibre. In composites, stiffness is a function of skin thickness.
Kevlar has poor uv stability and will degrade over time when exposed to direct sunlight (which when coupled with epoxy can result in a short lifespan. In grand prix yacht racing, Kevlar sails were replaced after only 48hours of daylight usage...big budget stuff!). Inegra on the other hand has little if any uv issues.
That's the technical side covered

now as far as surfing is concerned, well like huie said; How did it go Nick?
For me, i surfed mine (4oz top and bottom in poly on a pu stringerless blank with carbon rail tapes on the deck and a centerline carbon tape) in solid barrels at wurtulla four days after laminating and it felt stiffer than I expected, floated like a standard board and paddled well. Didn't get to do much open face surfing as it was breaking like tiger's sig pic but held we'll through bottom turns and trimmed easily, also felt stiff through those rippy sections you get on beachy type waves.
Only flaw was the board doesn't have enough rocker for me, possibly an issue due to not having a stringer...not really sure.
Also surfed it in small (2-3') windswell at s-bends (Kawana beachy) and itsperformance was on par with my small wave board, generated speed quickly with a few pumps and planed across flat full sections better than I expected.
Oh and one last issue I have with the board, it feels thick. It's shaped as a 2 3/8 but feels a lot more thicker. Most likely due to the thickness of the fibres so my next board will be 2 5/16 to compensate

[ric_vidal]

Let me guess NC... stringerless eps, HS carbon rail fibreflex, Kinetix epoxy, board - five foot nothing

Nice theory, but boy they need something to help them for deck strength and across the board generally... just rebuilt another one before it ended in two pieces.

Funnily enough needed to and did have a chat to one Dick Van Straalen about a repair to one of his craft, he has some different theories on how an eps board should be made due to the inherent buoyancy of eps.

[huie]

e p s on its own sh##t stupid yank trait we blow the best foam in the world
midgets bennets burford are on a level above the rest.
the only one making boards out of eps correctly is josh
all this carbon crap is just bullshit
anyway i want to here nick s report on ennegra

[tiger]

Compared to aramid(Kevlar) and carbon it is a very cheap alternative - roughly 20% of the price
it has a lower density therefore when using say 2oz cloth in either e-glass, s-glass, carbon or Kevlar it will achieve a thicker laminate thickness. It has a lower modulus than carbon or Kevlar and less tensile and flexural stiffness by thickness- this however is less an issue when you take into account the extra thickness attained due to the lower density of the inegra fibre. In composites, stiffness is a function of skin thickness.
Kevlar has poor uv stability and will degrade over time when exposed to direct sunlight (which when coupled with epoxy can result in a short lifespan. In grand prix yacht racing, Kevlar sails were replaced after only 48hours of daylight usage...big budget stuff!). Inegra on the other hand has little if any uv issues.
That's the technical side covered

now as far as surfing is concerned, well like huie said; How did it go Nick?
For me, i surfed mine (4oz top and bottom in poly on a pu stringerless blank with carbon rail tapes on the deck and a centerline carbon tape) in solid barrels at wurtulla four days after laminating and it felt stiffer than I expected, floated like a standard board and paddled well. Didn't get to do much open face surfing as it was breaking like tiger's sig pic but held we'll through bottom turns and trimmed easily, also felt stiff through those rippy sections you get on beachy type waves.
Only flaw was the board doesn't have enough rocker for me, possibly an issue due to not having a stringer...not really sure.
Also surfed it in small (2-3') windswell at s-bends (Kawana beachy) and itsperformance was on par with my small wave board, generated speed quickly with a few pumps and planed across flat full sections better than I expected.
Oh and one last issue I have with the board, it feels thick. It's shaped as a 2 3/8 but feels a lot more thicker. Most likely due to the thickness of the fibres so my next board will be 2 5/16 to compensate

Gaz, I'm still giving myself uppercuts about bungling the glass job on the boards. Everytime I walk past the board in the shed, it irks the sh1t outta me.

To elaborate. I inadvertantly flattened the rocker in the glassing process. Through a combination of using unstringered blanks, and wetting out problems with the cloth. Total phark up, that I didn't realise until too late.

I too only surfed mine once, on the puerto like day at Wurtulla Gaz mentioned. And it quite unnerving, due to the extremely flat rocker. I took a couple of heavy beatings, and the board got put in some precarious spots, but came away without a mark.

Compression strength wise there is still 'give', but stronger than a PUPE. I can lay it deck down on the ground, and stand on the bottom, flattening it right out the other way. And there is no noticeable fracturing or cracking.

We intended on doing some more test boards, making adjustments to lam procedure, and going down to 2oz cloth. But Gaz's situation changed, and stuff got in the way.

But I'm still keen to play around with it some more Gaz, if u still got access to the stuff.

[huie]

enough enough i want nicks report

[Nick Carroll]

waiting for a full report nick.

sorry mate you'll have to wait for ASL for that

oh OK I'll tell you what I can, I don't know shit about what weight cloth it was (yet), seemed to be just one layer of the stuff on the deck and none on the bottom, the board was standard PU foam, not a mini-board but quite wide (definitely not standard hi per by any stretch), it felt stiff and without any redeeming performance feature, but the deck was almost bulletproof

huie I disagree, carbon is not bullshit though maybe it doesn't suit your boardmaking desires, what I wondered about Innegra was mostly about its flexural properties -- was it stiffer or flexier than Kevlar?

[huie]

waiting for a full report nick.

sorry mate you'll have to wait for ASL for that

ahh ha send me a copy

oh OK I'll tell you what I can, I don't know shit about what weight cloth it was (yet), seemed to be just one layer of the stuff on the deck and none on the bottom, the board was standard PU foam, not a mini-board but quite wide (definitely not standard hi per by any stretch), it felt stiff and without any redeeming performance feature, but the deck was almost bulletproof

sounds like it might have been 4oz stiffness could have been associated with shape & blank density
yes so far as i can tell with what i have worked with it has far more flexability than kevlar
its impact resitance is its main strength ,
my main interest is geting a handle on the best way to work with all these ferel materials?

huie I disagree, carbon is not bullshit though maybe it doesn't suit your boardmaking desires, what I wondered about Innegra was mostly about its flexural properties -- was it stiffer or flexier than Kevlar?

now nick i am not refering to the perimeter flex thingy of haydens
i am just saying the mainstream mob are all over the carbon rush & prbly dont have a clue as to why they are doing it ?

[gibber]

Tim, yep mate can still get it no probs and have been talking with the guys who weave it to see if they can do a few variations on the styles of fabric they can produce. Hoping to have a Double bias style made up (+45/-45 degree off centre) in 2oz which would be pretty interesting


Nick, i reckon i covered its properties in my post but if you want more info let me know and i'll see if i can explain it better

[Nick Carroll]

now nick i am not refering to the perimeter flex thingy of haydens
i am just saying the mainstream mob are all over the carbon rush & prbly dont have a clue as to why they are doing it ?

ha ha you may well be right

If the Innegra on that test board was 4oz it was too goddam tough for my liking. The board actually felt a bit semi-conscious. Again hard to tell given a few other factors ... but it didn't feel like the carbon "snap" that's for sure. Maybe 2oz is the mot juste

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[steve shearer]

Hey Gibber, the small boat sounds interesting.

What kind of vessel?