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Japans Whailing and the actions of the "Steve Irwin&quo

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:13 am
by beach_defender
As most (that remember me) know, I have been a conservationist for the past 35 yrs or so. I am a member of a well known Surf related group, but I am moved to say something about the actions of the protestors in the Southern Ocean.

I hate the killing of whales and want to see it stopped. BUT, I've also worked on the sea and know that there are laws out there as well. There was no justification for the actions of the protestors or their vessel. What they did is covered in the law of the sea under "piracy" as I heard last night.

This was a stupid act that actually sets back thew move to convince Japan to stop the needless slaughter.

I reckon the whaler's captain has every right to hold these clowns.

I understand that they are saying they had the 'right' to board the other ship because they wanted to deliver a letter. RUBBISH. They have to ask for permission to board. If that is granted, then they can board otherwise its an illegal trespass, just the same as if I suddenly decided that I wanted to get into someone's car at the lights to explain I don't agree with their driving.

THese chaps are not 'hostages', they are legitimate prisoners.

Whether the Captiain of the vessel should listen to his government is another question, but these clowns are in the wrong here.

No matter how good the cause, there are limits to what one can 'peacefully' do. Will it be Ok to fire runner bullets at the harpooners next?

The Steve Irwin is not doing anything in my name.

Japan must stop the slaughter.

Barry

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:58 am
by BA
Well said Barry. I'm far from a Greenie, so may be not best placed to comment on these people, but you are 100% right. I'm sick of hearing the media carry on about " the Japanese are Terrorists and Rudd should step in to help these guys". What a load of crap. You reap what you sow.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:16 am
by Chamberess
Ah finally, someone else initiating this topic for discussion!

I wasn't aware that you are a conservationist. I would be very interested in chatting to you offline actually, if you wouldn't mind.

I have heard this situation being compared to that of foreign-owned boats entering into Australian waters. What does Border patrol do in such instances where these boats illegally enter our waters? From what i understand a warning call is put out on the loudspeaker a few times and then if the situation calls for it, warning shots are then fired. No such action was taken when they entered the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary.

I can't say i know much of laws of the Sea but i am finding it very hard to believe that these laws are helping to keep the Nisshin Maru and its fleet in the ocean and they are basically untouchable.

I also think Sea Shepherd boarded that boat for an intention other than to simply hand them a note. History of their actions has shown they do not take such a subdued approach to whalers.

Whilst i agree the Captain has the right to detain the protestors whilst on his boat, i think the demands he wants met in order to release them are unreasonable.

As you have mentioned,

"there are limits to what one can 'peacefully' do"

What then, do we do once we have approached this limit? Forget what extra ability or leverage a conservation group has. I am talking about- me- just a regular person who is disgusted by what is happening.

As a human being i cannot sit and watch these murders unfold. I cannot accept that there is nothing we can do to stop the whalers because of all the political bullsh*t protecting them like a security blanket.

I think this sums up best my feelings about the whales being murdered:

When i asked the great Nisga'a leader James Gosnell how he felt the first time he saw a clearcut, he replied:

"I couldn't breathe. It was as if the Earth had been skinned. I couldn't believe anyone would do that to the Earth."


-David Suzuki's The Sacred Balance

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:25 am
by beach_defender
Hi,
Interms of the law of the sea, the big issue is that the Steve Irwin is a private vessel (governments ones cant be pirates - go figure), and that they boarded the vessel unlawlfully - ie without permission and they intended to stop the bost going about its business.

I doubt that they would actually be found guilty, but it was just plain stupid to do.

In terms of stopping a Nation that flips off the world, we convince governments to drive them broke until they stop. We finally got notice about apartheid in Sth Africa, wolf conservation in Nth American and other things, but it takes a LONG time and a lot of work behind the scenes.

It took over 20 yrs for the average folk to understand about Climate change remember. I was protesting about Uranium sales 35 yrs ago, and it still happens.

If we want to stop these countries to behave the way we want them to, then we have to do it politically, sad but true.

The publicity is great, but boarding boats, ramming boats etc is no better than the French blowing up the Rainbow Warrior.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:34 am
by Natho
Sure the killing of the whales sucks and must stop.

However the actions of those two hippies yesterday was plain stupid and does absolutely nothing to help the case of stopping the killings. In fact I believe that their actions have just set us back in our campaign to stop the killings. Also what those two jerks did was illegal. I have no problem if the ship holds them and takes them back to Japan to face charges (if in fact this can be done). I do have an issue with the ship holding them hostage and being prepared only to release them under conditions.

We need to keep the protest peaceful. As an example we should start harpooning the Japanese whalers themselves and then hold up signs claiming 'Research Project'.

Peace out brothers and sisters.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:47 am
by Chamberess
Natho wrote:As an example we should start harpooning the Japanese whalers themselves and then hold up signs claiming 'Research Project'.

Peace out brothers and sisters.
Your best post yet :P

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:49 am
by scroopulis
Yep, whether the Japs are hunting whales, chickens, bees or Spotted Matt Damons, the boat should not have been boarded.
They were lucky they weren't harpooned.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:57 am
by Boozer
Under Australian law it is illegal to slaughter whales in Australian territorial waters, such as the Antarctic Whale Sanctuary.

The Japanese government refuses to recognise these waters as Australian territory.

I support the actions of the Sea Shepherd group and would welcome a mass boarding to free the two crew members held against their wishes.

To me it is the whalers who are acting illegally.

Time for some fair dinkum naval presence. They do it to stop the illegal fishing of patagonian toothfish in the same waters.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:01 pm
by Natho
One illegal act does not overright another. Just makes us as bad as them = we get nowhere.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:10 pm
by touchmereverend
What is more upsetting is the way that the once great campaigner and now Federal Environment minister Peter Garrett has contributed nothing at all of merit to the debate now that he has been completely gagged by the government.

The time has come for gunboat diplomacy i say... Australia need to develop a backbone when it comes to enforcing out territorial waters law.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:13 pm
by Revolution
Dumb hippies. Done nothing but dug themselves a hole.

One question for all you bandwagon whale lovers, why do you only care about the whales? why not the sharks? the cows? the baby cows? the pigs? or is it because its not the 'cool' thing to care about at the moment.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:42 pm
by beach_defender
Boozer wrote:Under Australian law it is illegal to slaughter whales in Australian territorial waters, such as the Antarctic Whale Sanctuary.
Which means its up to the Australian Government, not a private group to make the ships move out.

The Japanese government refuses to recognise these waters as Australian territory.
Yes, and that makes a difference where? I must have missed something.
I support the actions of the Sea Shepherd group and would welcome a mass boarding to free the two crew members held against their wishes.
So a strongly held belief can justify piracy?
How do you feel about car bombs?
Lets assume for one moment that the Japanese believe they hold the same claim of right that we do, and I think that that's their argument. Does that mean they would be justified in harpooning the protesters?

Differing strongly held beliefs and views is the reason we decided that we should have some laws about reasonable behaviour, that's the point here.

If the argument is OK for you, its Ok for everyone.
To me it is the whalers who are acting illegally.
and this is relevant to illegally boarding someone else's boat how, exactly?
Or, are you some form of international copper?
Time for some fair dinkum naval presence. They do it to stop the illegal fishing of patagonian toothfish in the same waters.
Only truly sensible sentence in your post IMHO

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:52 pm
by Chamberess
Keep waiting for K-Rudd to step up and intervene. I don't see it happening. It's all about maintaining political ties with one of the most powerful economies in the world and hey, who cares about some whales when the future of our economy is at stake, right? But wake up folks, if the natural resources of the world go bust, we HAVE no economy.

They get to enter our waters to slaughter hundreds of whales and Tin Tin just politely waves hello and sends the letter of protest to the Japanese government.That letter may as well be written in Braile.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:54 pm
by Boozer
Revolution wrote:One question for all you bandwagon whale lovers, why do you only care about the whales? why not the sharks? the cows? the baby cows? the pigs? or is it because its not the 'cool' thing to care about at the moment.
In my case damnnit, this is something I have cared about for longer than your pitiful existence.

Australia also used to slaughter whales until protests were finally heard.

I also care about the killing of sharks, dolphins, turtles, kangaroos, koalas and basically all non-farmed native wildlife.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:00 pm
by Boozer
beach_defender wrote:
Boozer wrote:
Time for some fair dinkum naval presence. They do it to stop the illegal fishing of patagonian toothfish in the same waters.
Only truly sensible sentence in your post IMHO
At least we agree on something.

Each to his own.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:47 pm
by Butts
Baz, good thread 8) And you beat Cess to it :shock: :P

Actually agree with you. 8)
I'm concerned though, about both Governments roles in this "debacle" :?
Japan must get invloved, as it is Government sanctioned, but Australia???
Not so sure.
Australia's involvement is that one of the prisoners is actually Australian,
similiar to an Australian being locked up in any other country. :?
But.......
This is actual International law (correct me if I'm wrong) so.......
What are your thoughts on the "political" landscape that will eventuate?

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:01 pm
by beach_defender
Butts wrote: What are your thoughts on the "political" landscape that will eventuate?
In the end - not much.

There will be some posturing by both governments and a battle of words between the Crocodile boat the whale killers, then they'll agree to hate each other and it'll all start again.

I would like to think that the Australian Gov (and good point above about Peter G btw, sad but true) would show some moral strength and start punitive sanctions on Japan in the form of trade restrictions etc.

We simply cant continue to remove large mammals from the ecosystem. Watching blood, etc doesn't affect me emotionally, things dies all the time. What I find astonishing is that with 90% of the large fish stocks and an equally appalling loss of marine mammals, we still cant convince humans that this is not a game, that what we are doing is madness.

Forcing political (and therefore social) change is a long-term boring and mind numbing business. If you truly want to do something then get involved. Only people can make political change.

A good start is the Surf Rider Foundation :- http://www.surfrider.org.au

But that't just the one I do.

(Keep on taking those photo's, I'll be back to annoy you next week)

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:09 pm
by cs
Apparently the whalers are re-educating the hostages in a similar style to A Clockwork Orange.

They're being force fed whale burgers, while their eyes are held open with match sticks as they are forced to watch docos on just how necessary the whale industry is to the Japanese economy...

They will only be released when they are preaching the virtues of killing whales.


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